Building Regs for firesafety and loft conversions

[indus]

Hi there,

I have a loft conversion well under way, I'd just like to check my options please. This is in regard to fire safety, I have been told I can do any of the below

1) Change all existing doors from habitable rooms to fire rated doors. I don't want to do this as I want to retain my originals.

2) Install a mains powered smoke detector in all habitable rooms.

I originally though these were the only two options and funnily enough two of my friends have just has their lofts converted and they both went for 2)

After chatting to the BR officer he said I can just paint all the doors in fire retardant varnish to give them a 30 minute rating. This would be the best option for me but just want to check with you knowledgeable guys that this is correct.

So could I fulfill current BR with regards to fire safety by painting all my existing doors with fire retardant material?

Many thanks for your help

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

AFAIK its not quite as simple as you think ie painting the doors in some intumescent varnish, you need to ascertain that your doors are suitable (they need to be able to lose a few mm whilst they burn) buy a kit comprising of special adhesive, intumescent papers, veneers etc apply them to the panels etc etc. Check your BCO will accept your chosen supplier and that he's happy that the existing doors are suitable. Each supplier of a kit will be able to tell you how to check your doors for suitability.

 

[indus]

Thanks Freddy. I was led to believe there was just a paint on solution but I'm waiting to hear back from the company to see what they say.

Thanks for your input

 

[indus]

You were sort of right Freddy. There is a membrane that needs to be stuck onto the recessed panelled areas of the doors only, then all the door needs to be painted.

The thing is the cost really, the materials for my eight doors comes to almost £500 inc delivery.

You can get smoke detectors for less than £20 each, so that would come to £160. They need to be mains wired but since it's in my contract with the builders for them to fit this its no big deal to me.

Thanks for your help

 

[DevilDamo]

It's not just the doors that need the fire resistance. Frames, hinges, etc... also need to provide the min. fire resistance.

 

[indus]

It's not just the doors that need the fire resistance. Frames, hinges, etc... also need to provide the min. fire resistance.

Really? Neither the BRO nor the company that sells the stuff mentioned that!

It's relevant to me again because my builder is pushing to use the door treatment rather than smoke alarm solution. Understandably he says all the wiring will cause a lot of damage.

I'll give the BRO a ring again and see what he has to say for himself...

 

[DevilDamo]

Well yes. A fire door is tested as a complete unit (i.e. frame, hinges, etc...). What's the point in having an FD30 with a standard softwood frame? I'd check with your BCO before going to the extent of treating your doors. If he says treating the door only is fine, then so be it but I've never had that be accepted.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You don't normally need to upgrade the furniture when using this system of upgrade, that would defeat the object of this kind of upgrade which is to retain the orginal features. It is a compromise which is why not all inspectors accept it as a solution and why I said to make sure your inspector will accept the specific upgrade (supplier) you proposed as the systems do vary a little.

 

[indus]

Thanks.

I spoke to the BRO again today (different one) and he said that as long as we follow the instructions given by the company then they are happy.

The company instructions don't mention the frames or hinges, but I will double check with them.

The BRO said that in terms of proof that the work to the doors had been done either we could get a certificate from the company (additional expense) or I could just show a receipt for proof of purchase of the materials.

He said he would note this on my file. Is this good enough? Shall I go on and order the hardware? (costs circa £500)

Thanks

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Personally I'd get something in writing (an email would do) from your actual inspector as he'll be the one signing it off and taking responsibility. More than likely it'll be fine but the forum is littered with threads where things were agreed by a random BCO on the phone and then the actual inspector has refused it.

 

[indus]

Thanks Feddy, I will do just that

 

[jeds]

It's not just the doors that need the fire resistance. Frames, hinges, etc... also need to provide the min. fire resistance.

Really? Neither the BRO nor the company that sells the stuff mentioned that!

It's relevant to me again because my builder is pushing to use the door treatment rather than smoke alarm solution. Understandably he says all the wiring will cause a lot of damage.

I'll give the BRO a ring again and see what he has to say for himself...

You don't need loads of wiring for smoke alarms. Just one need to be hard wired the rest can be radio controlled.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

jeds, I thought they needed to be mains powered (with battery backup obviously).

 

[jeds]

I've got two BS5839 guides which I use all the time. They've both got radiolink alarms in them. Main disadvantage is that the radio unit is a bit pricey but it's still a lot less than running complicated wiriing.

Ah, hang on. The radiolink is for linking - you still need a mains supply. But that's normally easy to do locally - it's the linking that involves running wires all over the place.

 

[indus]

Mains wiring will still require chasing of wires into the ceilings though. The first floor won't be so difficult as access from the new loft will be possible. The ground floor rooms will be more of an issue. Its an old property and so once you start hacking at anything it all starts to fall apart!

The BRO I spoke to the first time around said upgrading the doors is actually the preferred method as compared to the smoke alarms. I suppose that is because the fire treated doors actually go some way to limiting the spread of fire whereas the alarms just let you know that there is a fire.

Thanks