Building regs with converting loft for storage ONLY

[andy.budgell]

Hi there,

I have a decent loftspace, however the ridge height is around 6ft 3in from the ceiling joists.

I plan to convert the loftspace to something more useable. E.g. Make cupboard under the eaves, insulate the rafters and plasterboard it. I've already put in one window which I've got a building regs application.
I've also got plans to remove old traditional boiler with header tanks and cylinder so I can use airing cupboard space for narrow steps going up into loft.

With the limited height theres no real chance of putting in a new floor without raising the roof. No chance.

Is it still possible to do all the above like I said?
I've heard various rules e.g. Height in loft must be 8ft odd for offical conversion and height at the top of stairs must be 2 metres etc.

How does that affect what I'm doing and how does this affect building regs???? Can they say "Oh no, you cant do that" etc.

???

 

[JohnD]

when you use the word "unofficially" do you mean "illegally?"

do you mind the value of your house being reduced when you come to sell it?

 

[andy.budgell]

when you use the word "unofficially" do you mean "illegally?"

do you mind the value of your house being reduced when you come to sell it?

No not illegally. Thats why I'm posting a message to ask for advice??

OH yes I like to see the value of my house reduce, yes really.

I want to do everything by the book.

 

[Deluks]

If you aren't doing a proper loft conversion, and do not intend to use it as a habitable room, then you don't need to worry about 'the book'

However you should still follow good building practice, starting with increasing the strength of floor timbers if need be (no point in having a storage area that can only store light stuff) and making sure that any plasterboard or insulation doesn't adversely affect the buildings ventilation requirements, or exacerbate energy loss.

 

[andy.budgell]

If you aren't doing a proper loft conversion, and do not intend to use it as a habitable room, then you don't need to worry about 'the book'

However you should still follow good building practice, starting with increasing the strength of floor timbers if need be (no point in having a storage area that can only store light stuff) and making sure that any plasterboard or insulation doesn't adversely affect the buildings ventilation requirements, or exacerbate energy loss.

Does that mean I should involve building control. I have people I know in the trade, but I believe if I dont have building regs and I want to sell my house it can get awkward?

 

[JohnD]

yes, that's what I meant by reducing the value of your house.

 

[andy.budgell]

Deleted

 

[masona]

I want to do everything by the book.

Pop down to your BCO for their free advice, they are very helpful and will answer any questions you're not sure about

 

[andy.budgell]

Moderator how can you honestly say saying my house will reduce in value is good advice when he mentions no reasons whatsoever of why the house would reduce in value.
His comments were of no help and he provided no useful input to my queries.
Noone has mentioned what happens when you sell your house with regards to building control etc.

 

[JohnD]

if you sell a house with a loft conversion, the buyer will ask if it was done with BCO approval and Planning Permission.

If the answer to either of these questions is "no" they will value it at the price of an unconverted house, minus the cost of removing the (presumably unsatisfactory) conversion and all the time and inconvenience of putting it right. The Mortgage company will offer a reduced valuation with retentions.

Or (less trouble) they will go away and buy a different house and you will have to reduce the price of yours until somone comes along who is willing to buy it cheap and take a chance on it.

Didn't you know that?

 

[andy.budgell]

if you sell a house with a loft conversion, the buyer will ask if it was done with BCO approval and Planning Permission.

If the answer to either of these questions is "no" they will value it at the price of an unconverted house, minus the cost of removing the (presumably unsatisfactory) conversion and all the time and inconvenience of putting it right. The Mortgage company will offer a reduced valuation with retentions.

Or (less trouble) they will go away and buy a different house and you will have to reduce the price of yours until somone comes along who is willing to buy it cheap and take a chance on it.

Didn't you know that?

Thanks for the reply JohnD, useful advice.

All of what you say makes sense if it is used and advertised as a room.
I dont want to advertise it as a room if I come to sell, just the fact that that the loft has been modernised for storage only.

Co-incidentally I had a building inspector come around yesterday to sign off the velux window I put in. He seemed slightly more interested on what I was doing up there, as I have put insulation board in as well as caberfloor.

He didnt exactly say I shouldnt be doing it, but he did imply that if I plasterboard it, it maybe classed as a room by estate agents and this may contravene fire regulations as potentially people may sleep up there etc.

He was also concerned about me putting stairs because then I think it would most definitely be classed as an extra habitable room.

But this is where it gets confusing. I am getting my boiler replaced shortly with a combi which will do away with my header tanks and hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard.

This airing cupboard could then potentially be used to install a permanent set of stairs - all be it a narrow set and enclosed in a cupboard. Does this mean it wouldnt be classed as as room?

I find the whole thing a bit confusing to be honest, I've tried looking at building regulation documents but there are so many I wouldnt know which one to look at even if this stuff was in there.

I get the feeling its a bit of a grey area with regards to what is a habitable room and what isnt when it comes to lofts?

I'd be interested to hear your views on this!

 

[masona]

He was also concerned about me putting stairs because then I think it would most definitely be classed as an extra habitable room.

This airing cupboard could then potentially be used to install a permanent set of stairs - all be it a narrow set and enclosed in a cupboard. Does this mean it wouldnt be classed as as room?

Hmm, it's all about common sense and providing you don't get carried away
The staircase will be resting on the new trimmer joists therefore the joists on the surrounding stairs will need bigger joists unless the top is resting on a bearing wall.

It is a grey area but I have put in a staircase for an elderly couple for easy reach to the loft because they didn't felt safe on the loft ladder, you see, that's what you want to do isn't it, you have a new medical condition called loft ladderphobia


ps: another one I have done for the same reason is a spiral staircase and the smallest one they do as far as I know is 36" dia which is the one I have, can be a bit awkward for storing large item.

 

[andy.budgell]

He was also concerned about me putting stairs because then I think it would most definitely be classed as an extra habitable room.

This airing cupboard could then potentially be used to install a permanent set of stairs - all be it a narrow set and enclosed in a cupboard. Does this mean it wouldnt be classed as as room?

Hmm, it's all about common sense and providing you don't get carried away
The staircase will be resting on the new trimmer joists therefore the joists on the surrounding stairs will need bigger joists unless the top is resting on a bearing wall.

It is a grey area but I have put in a staircase for an elderly couple for easy reach to the loft because they didn't felt safe on the loft ladder, you see, that's what you want to do isn't it, you have a new medical condition called loft ladderphobia

Good point about the staircase resting on the trimmer joists. In my case it would be resting on the actual joists due to orientation. But they're near purlins/binders.

But like you said, its a grey area, or is it? Surely it shouldnt be.
At the end of the day I think common sense will prevail. I wont be using it as an habitable room. So I wont have any furniture up there. Just a couple of bean bags, a 40 inch wall hung LCD TV and a PS3.

I think you get my drift?!

 

[masona]

I wont be using it as an habitable room.

Well it is if you're going watch telly up there

So I wont have any furniture up there.

No but you're up there instead I think the problem you may have now is that the building inspector know you're up to something and may have been noted to keep an eye on you and you may also have the house insurance problem. Is the velux window the fire escape type? If not, that's another problem

 

[Deluks]

Yes, definite grey area, and a blue rinse won't sort it.
Find out from him exactly what you can and can't do, you need to define what type of room it is and what it can and can't be used for. As John has mentioned, if you go too far then you are halfway to a loft conversion and it will be recognised as a half complete conversion, causing all sorts of ooms and aahs when you come to sell.

My advice if you don't want to go for the full monty, is to make sure that what you do, can easily be undone at a later date if you sell, this could mean ripping out the plasterboard and removing the wall sockets/wiring back to the CU, although a single lightbulb swinging from the rafters is acceptable for a loft. Then take out the stairs and refit ladder and hatch. Then when you sell, it's a loft and nothing more. No confusion.

Whatever you do up there, an estate agent is unlikely to value the house any more unless you have it all done legally with paperwork.
A potential buyer might pay a bit extra for the extra space, using it as you have been, but only if they choose to ignore the advice from their surveyor/estate agent/mortgage lender etc.

Lastly, I don't think 'habitable' is defined by whether you are sleeping in there or not. Once it has a purpose, in your case TV and games room (face it, it is) then habitable applies.