Hi, I've recently put an offer on a house in Hastings. the Internal wall between lounge and diner has been removed. Sellers advise this happened in 2014. Surveys have revealed the house comes under Article 4 - and that wall removal should have had building regs approval and completion certificate. Sellers initially indicated that they could provide further info on this - however latest correspondence from their solicitor provides no paperwork. they've attached Indemnity Insurance. I've gone back to them and said I need confirmation that the building work is safe. I've had survey on the house done, which (apart from the wall complication) was actually pretty good. Surveyor though couldn't say much about the wall removed - with the report just saying that 'building regs approval will provide assurances.' I've asked the seller again re. their paperwork, name of building firm? did they have an architect come through? What assurances were they given in 2014 that the work was safe? Their agent has indicated that they will most likely need a structural engineer to sign off on it all. I'm disappointed - and I must admit very cautious as to how to proceed. Thankfully I have a good solicitor. Do any of you have experience with this kind of think - Article 4 etc? Thanks. Ally
Buying a house - survey revealed it comes under Article 4 - advice needed
- Thread starter Ally001
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Article 4 Directive's are related to Planning not Building Control. They are imposed by councils in certain areas and restrict the permitted development rights the property has, they might be needing planning permission to change the windows or paint the house or convert the garage or whatever, they vary so you do need to find out what the restrictions are, your solicitor should be able to tell you. Or you should be able to find them on your local authority's website with a bit of hunting around/googling.
As for the internal wall removal that could be a structural alteration and could have affected the fire safety. Assuming it was a structural change and if there are no cracks or the new beam isn't bowing or any other obvious signs that the installation was dodgy then seeing as it's been up since 2014 then you could reasonably assume it's probably fine, any problems would have arisen by now. It's very common for these kinds of things to be dealt with by way of an indemnity, that's basically an insurance policy that covers the legal costs that you would be liable for if Building Control took legal action against you for having a dodgy structure (which absolutely just doesn't happen). You'll not get anything else useful from your seller that's why they've already paid for a (pointless) indemnity, to satisfy the whims of dopey solicitors. Do not speak to Building Control regarding this matter, that would deem the indemnity invalid.
This is all pretty tame tbh and not too much to get work up by. If you were worried then you could employ a structural engineer to assess the installation but that would involve exposing each end of the beam and I daresay the sellers may not be too happy about that. In theory you could ask the seller to pay for an engineer but again they may not be too keen and of course the engineer would be acting for them rather than you, which may not be in your best interest. You could see if you can get an agreement written into your house sale contract whereby you employ the engineer but the seller has to refund you upon completion, again they may not agree. But that said I've bought houses with structural works that haven't been signed off, and assuming I was satisfied it 'looked ok', it's not such a big deal and I'd proceed without worrying.
Posting the plans would help, regarding whether the fire safety may have been affected.
As for the internal wall removal that could be a structural alteration and could have affected the fire safety. Assuming it was a structural change and if there are no cracks or the new beam isn't bowing or any other obvious signs that the installation was dodgy then seeing as it's been up since 2014 then you could reasonably assume it's probably fine, any problems would have arisen by now. It's very common for these kinds of things to be dealt with by way of an indemnity, that's basically an insurance policy that covers the legal costs that you would be liable for if Building Control took legal action against you for having a dodgy structure (which absolutely just doesn't happen). You'll not get anything else useful from your seller that's why they've already paid for a (pointless) indemnity, to satisfy the whims of dopey solicitors. Do not speak to Building Control regarding this matter, that would deem the indemnity invalid.
This is all pretty tame tbh and not too much to get work up by. If you were worried then you could employ a structural engineer to assess the installation but that would involve exposing each end of the beam and I daresay the sellers may not be too happy about that. In theory you could ask the seller to pay for an engineer but again they may not be too keen and of course the engineer would be acting for them rather than you, which may not be in your best interest. You could see if you can get an agreement written into your house sale contract whereby you employ the engineer but the seller has to refund you upon completion, again they may not agree. But that said I've bought houses with structural works that haven't been signed off, and assuming I was satisfied it 'looked ok', it's not such a big deal and I'd proceed without worrying.
Posting the plans would help, regarding whether the fire safety may have been affected.
Thank you so much - appreciate you taking the time to respond.
Here's the text from my solicitor's letter....
'The search revealed the property is within an area subject to an Article 4 Direction order. This means that where some areas have permitted development meaning some alterations can be undertaken to a property without applying for the usual planning permission and building regulations approval, the property you are purchasing does not permit such alternations. Any alterations you intend to make, it will be necessary for for you to obtain the consent of the local authority.
Removal of the internal wall - the works are not noted in the Local Authority search result. We are making further investigations.'
When I inspected the property - the window of the double bedroom at the back was cracked, first floor. Not just a single crack, but completely cracked to the point where you couldn't really see through it. The sellers assured me they would have it fixed. Discovering that they didn't have sign off for the wall removal has now of course made me wonder if the window may have cracked due a load issue from above.
Sellers have indicated they will provide further paperwork, so I guess I'll see what comes. Thanks.
Here's the text from my solicitor's letter....
'The search revealed the property is within an area subject to an Article 4 Direction order. This means that where some areas have permitted development meaning some alterations can be undertaken to a property without applying for the usual planning permission and building regulations approval, the property you are purchasing does not permit such alternations. Any alterations you intend to make, it will be necessary for for you to obtain the consent of the local authority.
Removal of the internal wall - the works are not noted in the Local Authority search result. We are making further investigations.'
When I inspected the property - the window of the double bedroom at the back was cracked, first floor. Not just a single crack, but completely cracked to the point where you couldn't really see through it. The sellers assured me they would have it fixed. Discovering that they didn't have sign off for the wall removal has now of course made me wonder if the window may have cracked due a load issue from above.
Sellers have indicated they will provide further paperwork, so I guess I'll see what comes. Thanks.
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Photo's might help (of the crack) as would the plans as mentioned.
Every new house built on estates has an Article 4 Directive applied. It's not an issue, and nothing to do with wall removals.
For the wall, whilst this would be considered a risk, the risk needs to be quantified and if your surveyor confirms that the surrounding structure is not in distress, then that would normally do. Then you just need to get the seller to compensate you for your risk by reducing the price.
For the wall, whilst this would be considered a risk, the risk needs to be quantified and if your surveyor confirms that the surrounding structure is not in distress, then that would normally do. Then you just need to get the seller to compensate you for your risk by reducing the price.
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As everyone else has said Article 4 is a planning constraint not a building regs constraint, so removal of an internal wall and reference to article 4 is irrelevant. (I'm struggling to think how removal of a wall would be a planning issue, outside of listed buildings).
Surveyors have trouble giving absolute opinions on hidden beams because they don't have x-ray vision, so always have to apply disclaimers. The only way of knowing for certain is a destructive survey. However, as has already been pointed out, if it's been there since 2014 and there is no sign of cracking at the beam ends or along the ceiling (and I don't mean the very tiny thermal movement cracks you often see) then almost certainly everything is fine. The sort of cracks to note are the ones where the two sides of the crack seem to have "slipped". If these exist, walk away.
Buying houses you always have to make a judgement call. Use your own eyes. as @^woody^ says, use the lack of sign-off as a lever to try and get a price reduction, but, be careful because the seller might just decide to walk away too and find a more pragmatic buyer.
Surveyors have trouble giving absolute opinions on hidden beams because they don't have x-ray vision, so always have to apply disclaimers. The only way of knowing for certain is a destructive survey. However, as has already been pointed out, if it's been there since 2014 and there is no sign of cracking at the beam ends or along the ceiling (and I don't mean the very tiny thermal movement cracks you often see) then almost certainly everything is fine. The sort of cracks to note are the ones where the two sides of the crack seem to have "slipped". If these exist, walk away.
Buying houses you always have to make a judgement call. Use your own eyes. as @^woody^ says, use the lack of sign-off as a lever to try and get a price reduction, but, be careful because the seller might just decide to walk away too and find a more pragmatic buyer.
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