Can anyone identify the original fittings for this door?

[PeaJay2000]

Hello all.

I bought a used front door. I attach a picture of the keyhole from the outside. Can anyone advise what hardware would have originally been on this door? I would like to get new fittings that cover these existing holes and just buying the same as the original would be the easiest way to go.

The distance between the two top holes (measured from the outsides of the holes) is 50mm (give or take a couple of mill)

If you look closely, you can see the colour difference where the hardware on the outside used to be. I don't think the cylinder is the one that went with whatever hardware was there.

Looking around, I was thinking that perhaps this was originally a nightlatch on the inside, and the holes are for the pins/screws from the inside, which would pull some kind of escutcheon / cylinder pull handle tight on the outside. But looking at a few diagrams online, and not finding any evidence for any part of a nightlatch on the door frame, i'm doubtful.

A specific manufacturer would be great but really anything would help. Looks like crop circles to me.

Thanks in advance!

PJ

 

[Deleted member 174758]

There is no specific manufacturer. The door looks to have been given a general drilling to take a variety of commercial ironmongery including locks with either a Chubb large ovsl barrel or a Eurobarrel (as fitted). On most commercial ironmongery these days the escutcheons are supplied with a pair of bolts which go either side of the lock escutcheon or the handle escutcheon. The bottom hole isn't used much. Any commercial or architectural ironmonger should be able to sell you an appropriate "concealed fix escutcheon - Euro profile" which should be supplied with 2 no m/f fixing bolts and possibly 4 no countersunk head screws. You don't need the screws. These are a 2-piece per side fitting - the main escutcheon plates are fitted first using the bolts (which often need to be cut to length) and the finish plates are then knocked on (they a generslly a friction fit). The bolts are inserted from outside to inside with the short nutsvon the inside (to prevent attack from the outside):

 

[PeaJay2000]

Thank you for your reply, very glad to hear this is nothing unusual.

I've found the escutcheon I want to match the letter plate I am also getting, and it looks like the same type you posted. I also want to change the barrel so it has a thumbturn on the inside, which I gather makes no difference to things. What I cannot picture is what happens on the inside (the door looks the same on the inside as it does the outside). If I were to get 2 concealed EURO escutcheons, how do I bolt the escutcheon plates together if they are both concealed? I'm guessing the the outside one would be bolted from inside to the door, and the inner one just stuck on maybe with a bit of glue or something.

Thank you,

PJ

 

[Notch7]

Thank you for your reply, very glad to hear this is nothing unusual.

I've found the escutcheon I want to match the letter plate I am also getting, and it looks like the same type you posted. I also want to change the barrel so it has a thumbturn on the inside, which I gather makes no difference to things. What I cannot picture is what happens on the inside (the door looks the same on the inside as it does the outside). If I were to get 2 concealed EURO escutcheons, how do I bolt the escutcheon plates together if they are both concealed? I'm guessing the the outside one would be bolted from inside to the door, and the inner one just stuck on maybe with a bit of glue or something.

Thank you,

PJ

you need a euro cylinder with a thumb turn.

and on the inside it also needs a pin escutcheon.

you can get euro escutcheons that have a base part that’s fitted with screws, then the cover has a thread and you screw that over the base plate.

TBH they can be a bit crap as the screws are minute with tiny heads - and if they are over tightened they strip in the wood,

 

[Deleted member 174758]

That escutcheon i posted comprises a base plate and a friction fit cover. Fairly standard architectural ironmongery. They are generally supplied as sets of two escutcheons, two friction fit covers, two bolts and 8 screws - ours come in boxes of 10 items (5 sets). You won't need the CSK head screws (in fact they sometimes stop the lock from working). The bottom hole in the door is for use with pull type escutcheons such as you'd more often find on a Yale night latch

 

[PeaJay2000]

I found out that the existing holes in my door (with the two top most holes having fixing centres at 38 mm) were made to fit "high security escutheons" which bolt through and cannot be tampered with from the outside. The 38mm fixing centres seems standard and there are plenty out there so I've ordered one.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Those are the sort of thing I was referring to. True high security items are a bit more complex and have a cast iron or heavy steel sub-escutcheon on the outer side (or sometimes both sides) of the door which can't be drilled very easily. Most of this type of escutcheon set have two pressed steel sub-escutcheons which the nut and bolt assemblies fit into instead of screwing them to the door. They are supposedly more resistant to the door handle being wrenched off, but I wouldn't ever consider them to add much extra security