Can I remove this wooden beam from my loft?

[Valiante]

I have this beam sitting across some of the joists in my loft. There are 3 or 4 just like this, all sitting perpendicular to the joists, on top of them. They are nailed down to the joists, but as far as I can tell serve no particular purpose. This one even wobbles slightly if I grab it and try to move it.

So my question is, why is it there and can I remove it? I'm part way through boarding out the loft and it'll make my life a lot easier if it's not there.

Cheers!

 

[ladylola]

Simple answer is no. They are called collar ties although there was a very similiar thread about these where I found that for most of my working life I'd been incorrectly calling them summer beams.
However, irrespective of what anyone calls them one overriding fact is that nobody puts timbers in a roof for fun, they are always there for a purpose. You'd actually be better raising the floor upto the level of the tops of these timbers.

 

[catlad]

I would say you will be ok to remove it as you are going to bind all the trusses together with the new flooring, but remember those trusses were not designed to be a room so don't over load them.

 

[Valiante]

I've just googled collar ties and this doesn't match the description, which is basically "load bearing, mid-height, to prevent rafters from sagging". This is at the bottom of the loft space, sitting on top of the joists/trusses, not connected to anything at either end, just nailed down at each joist.

So I'm not sure it's a collar tie. Doesn't seem to be doing anything of use.

The loft space isn't very high, you can barely crouch, so it won't be used as a room or to store anything particularly heavy - I'm only boarding it out so I can store relatively light boxes without having to balance them across the joists - and to allow me to move around more easily without worrying where I'm treading / kneeling.

As I'm not installing a proper floor, I don't want to go to all the trouble of raising the level of the boards just to put some boxes on them. I just don't get what this beam is doing, as it doesn't appear to be doing anything.

 

[tony1851]

In roofs of some houses built in the !950s/60s, the horizontal purlins supporting the rafters are quite small (5" x 2") and are propped off diagonal timbers supported in turn off longitudinal timbers which run immediately above and at right-angles to the ceiling joists. There is no prop off your timber, and it stops abruptly in the foreground. Is it possible a previous owner of your house has already cut away some timbers, perhaps with a view to making a room in the loft?
A wider-angle shot of your roof structure would be more helpful.

 

[Valiante]

There is no prop off your timber, and it stops abruptly in the foreground.

It stops because the loft hatch is right there, you can just see the frame at the bottom of the shot (though I realise this isn't obvious, hence pointing it out now). The house was built in the 1970s so it's unlikely to be unoriginal.

Is it possible a previous owner of your house has already cut away some timbers, perhaps with a view to making a room in the loft?

I'd say this is highly unlikely as it's not possible to stand in my loft, even at the highest point. It's pretty much a crawl space, you can "walk" around at a very low crouch at best, but only with your knees fully bent.

I don't believe it's been modified in any way since it was built.

 

[Valiante]

I would say you will be ok to remove it as you are going to bind all the trusses together with the new flooring, but remember those trusses were not designed to be a room so don't over load them.

From what I've since read on other (more active) forums I think this seems to be the most accurate answer. It looks to me, having read the entire internet this evening (or so it feels), that this "beam" is actually a joist binder, and is there to simply prevent the joists from sagging or twisting. Removing just this one and covering the area with 2.5m length, 18mm thick floorboards should provide the same binding properties.

 

[xr4x4]

You could of done with some more insulation while you where there.

 

[Valiante]

You could of done with some more insulation while you where there.

Possibly, but that wasn't really my question now was it? I'm not interested in reinsulating my loft, or turning it into a room, or decorating it with flowers. I just want to make storing stuff easier.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

 

[xr4x4]

You could of done with some more insulation while you where there.

Possibly, but that wasn't really my question now was it? I'm not interested in reinsulating my loft, or turning it into a room, or decorating it with flowers. I just want to make storing stuff easier.

Whatever....

If you don't want to save money on your heating bills, that's up to you.

 

[17thman]

if you are only interested in storing things in the loft, then board around those crossovers, if you want to use it more generally, then pack the lower joists and then board over them, but remember you may well make a lot of screwed electrical connections inaccessible. you also have a water pipe too close to an electrical cable there.

 

[ladylola]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there 17thman, I did just that at my parents house but built upto the tops in my own larger loft space. I also share your concern with that pipe too, it's going to be vunerable where it is just sticking what looks about 6-7 inches up from the floor

 

[Valiante]

@xr4x4 - Look, I don't mean to seem crabby. You make a good point, loft insulation could have been topped up, etc. But at this point I was just trying to find out about the joist binders.

@17thman - Really? Damn. A previous owner installed a shower, which is where that pipe goes. The shower has since gone pop, so I've been considering removing, or at least re-routing that pipe, so a new one could be installed. Had no idea there were distance issues with cables - I'm not in the building trade, or anything related.

@ladylola - You're right, it is a bit vulnerable, which is one of the reasons I'd considered (re)moving it. But for now as I'm the only one who goes up there, and it's not possible to walk around, but only crawl, then I'll just avoid it & be careful for now. Incidentally, since the shower went pop, I turned the stop-cock off on the feed to that pipe, so in theory there should be no pressure in it.

And to all of the above - sorry for the massive delay in replying - I didn't realise but this forum is registered to an old email address, so I haven't been getting any of the notifications - I only just remembered it now. So sorry about that.

 

[masona]

This one even wobbles slightly if I grab it and try to move it.

Will need more screws or you could use strap ties

So my question is, why is it there and can I remove it?

Called ceiling binder, doing an important job of supporting the ceiling joists however can be done but a lot more work which is not really worth it for the time being spent there