Can I replicate a powerflush by running the boiler whilst filling it and opening the drain valve?

[ey143]

is it safe for me to open a drain valve on my radiator system whilst at the same time opening the filler loop and letting the boiler pump operate so as to replicate a powerflush?

I've spent nearly £800 over 3 years doing a professional powerflush but I still get problem with F2 error on my Viessman 111-w vitodens boiler. I have used several bottles of MC3+ in my Magnaclean Professional 2 filter but I cant afford to do any more power flushes. Someone told me to the the above to memic a powerflush.

 

[footprints]

No there is a danger of damage to the pump if air gets into it.

 

[ATTQ]

is it safe for me to open a drain valve on my radiator system whilst at the same time opening the filler loop and letting the boiler pump operate so as to replicate a powerflush?

I've spent nearly £800 over 3 years doing a professional powerflush but I still get problem with F2 error on my Viessman 111-w vitodens boiler. I have used several bottles of MC3+ in my Magnaclean Professional 2 filter but I cant afford to do any more power flushes. Someone told me to the the above to memic a powerflush.

Whats the reason you feel like you keep needing to do the flushes?

 

[Madrab]

You will never replicate a Powerflush no - the system pump etc won't deliver the pressure and flow that a Powerflush machine can. As suggested, wouldn't be a good idea to run the pump whilst doing any flush of the system.

When you drain the system, is the system water clean or dirty? Do you get a lot of material caught in the filter?

What version of the 100-w is it because an F2 error may not be a circulation problem, more a burner lockout.

(edit) Just checked if it's the Vitodens 111-W - Type B1LD storage combi then according to the MI a F2 error is a burner lockout

 

[ATTQ]

I'm seeing more recent boiler pumps might not have a capacitor but in case yours does... I changed the capacitor in my pump, £5 and 2 minute fix. The capacitance was something crazy low like 0.01uF when it should have been 2uF and it was still running, so it appeared the problems I was getting were typical of sludge. Fast cycling low and high burner, slow flow caused overheating caused burner lock outs. Rad closest to boiler was very hot while the ones at the end of the house barely warm. Engineers answer "ah its old get a new one mate" Its so old maybe he didn't feel it was wise to powerflush as didnt recommend that, or just wants to install new all the time. Anyway doesn't seem to be any sludge and a new capacitor fixed everything. Might be worth a look. I wonder how many systems have been condemned when thats all it was.

 

[ey143]

So the last proper professional powerflush was done in April 2022, each rad flushed from the kitchen by closing each rad valve.

ATTQ - the reason for wanting or needing to do the flush is that around Feb each year I'm getting F2 errors and the boiler hot water temp reaches 90-100 degree before going to safefail mode and flashing F2. It's literally every Feb, maybe because the incoming water is extra cold and needs to use more burners to heat up and get clogged.

When I clean out the magaclean filter, the magnetic part is lightly coated in black magalite or whatever the term is called. The water is not jet black but some what grey dirty. I have about 5 or 6 bottles of MC3+ in the radiator system for over a year and have not bothered to flush it out with fresh water and inhibitor. Doesn't seem to have done any damage. I understand that the boiler plate heat exchanger is made of streel not aluminium.

I do believe it is sludge. I seem to call engineers out from my various free insurance policies (home emergency cover with my home insurance or bank account) and they all say "cant touch it, looks like sludge and needs a power clean". I'm loathed to do it again after having spent £600 the first time around and it giving problems again after 1 year in April 2023.

My top loft bedroom radiators dont always get hot.

 

[ATTQ]

sludge isn't seasonal and if the water isn't even black and you're getting very little on the magnet - it doesn't sound like your problem is sludge. When you had it flushed before did a lot come out? I'm guessing very little and the guy mumbled something and took the money.

My knowledge of boilers is limited to understanding my own simple one which is pre-error codes. It might be similar enough in theory to be useful though

Increased temp of water in the boiler is effected by either the burner adding more heat or the speed the water is moving too slow to take the heat from the heat exchanger.

If the burner is putting too much heat, maybe if the gas valve is out of adjustment, or the thermistor is bad or the modulator isn't working or the PCB isn't controlling all this as it should, it could over heat and cause a lockout (turns the gas off and shutting down).

If the water is moving too slow it could be sludge but doesn't sound likely, but it could be a weak pump or broken pump or just a crap pump, if you have radiators in an attic as well thats quite a lot of work, maybe its not coping with the pressure and that is slowing movement through the boiler causing the over heat. If your pump has a capacitor I'd check that first.

Relying on free emergency cover engineers sounds like a bad idea. A bit like the NHS is ok just about if you have an acute problem. They are **** for chronic boring maintenance issues. You probably need to get someone recommended by Viessman who has been trained for their boilers.

 

[Madrab]

It's literally every Feb, maybe because the incoming water is extra cold and needs to use more burners to heat up and get clogged

Are you only getting the error during HW mode or during CH too? The only point that the incoming cold water would have any effect would be during HW mode. If it is then it may juts be the plate HEX that needs looked at.

If it does it during both modes then it may be another issue.

Just checked if it's the Vitodens 111-W - Type B1LD storage combi then according to the MI a F2 error is a burner lockout

I do have to point out again though, an F2 error on a Vitodens 111-W - Type B1LD storage combi is not a circulation error, though it hasn't been clarified what boiler model it is.

 

[oldbuffer]

1. MC3+ shouldn't be left in for more than 28 days. May not (I don't know) cause any problems, but likely to cease having any effect.
2. Is the high temperature problem related to heating, hot water, or both?
2.1 If hot water only, it could be the hot water side of the secondary (plate) heat exchanger being clogged.
2.2 If central heating only, likely to be a circulation issue.
2.3 If both, could be plate or circulation and possibly both.
3. How long did the power flush take? If much less than a full day then, unless you have fewer than about eight radiators, may not have been done thoroughly.

 

[ey143]

sludge isn't seasonal and if the water isn't even black and you're getting very little on the magnet - it doesn't sound like your problem is sludge. When you had it flushed before did a lot come out? I'm guessing very little and the guy mumbled something and took the money.

My knowledge of boilers is limited to understanding my own simple one which is pre-error codes. It might be similar enough in theory to be useful though

Increased temp of water in the boiler is effected by either the burner adding more heat or the speed the water is moving too slow to take the heat from the heat exchanger.

If the burner is putting too much heat, maybe if the gas valve is out of adjustment, or the thermistor is bad or the modulator isn't working or the PCB isn't controlling all this as it should, it could over heat and cause a lockout (turns the gas off and shutting down).

If the water is moving too slow it could be sludge but doesn't sound likely, but it could be a weak pump or broken pump or just a crap pump, if you have radiators in an attic as well thats quite a lot of work, maybe its not coping with the pressure and that is slowing movement through the boiler causing the over heat. If your pump has a capacitor I'd check that first.

Relying on free emergency cover engineers sounds like a bad idea. A bit like the NHS is ok just about if you have an acute problem. They are **** for chronic boring maintenance issues. You probably need to get someone recommended by Viessman who has been trained for their boilers.

No, when we power flushed it in 2022 we had filthy black water come out. this was the first time we ever flushed the system. all rads were hot after that. Viessmann have already been around, they said powerflush it, which I have.

 

[ey143]

Are you only getting the error during HW mode or during CH too? The only point that the incoming cold water would have any effect would be during HW mode. If it is then it may juts be the plate HEX that needs looked at.

If it does it during both modes then it may be another issue.

I do have to point out again though, an F2 error on a Vitodens 111-W - Type B1LD storage combi is not a circulation error, though it hasn't been clarified what boiler model it is.

Thanks for the reply, as per my original post, the boiler is a Viessman 111-w vitodens boiler. We got the error msg only on HW mode as the temp increases to 90+ degrees and cuts out. At the moment its not doing it because I ran the MC3+.

 

[ey143]

1. MC3+ shouldn't be left in for more than 28 days. May not (I don't know) cause any problems, but likely to cease having any effect.
2. Is the high temperature problem related to heating, hot water, or both?
2.1 If hot water only, it could be the hot water side of the secondary (plate) heat exchanger being clogged.
2.2 If central heating only, likely to be a circulation issue.
2.3 If both, could be plate or circulation and possibly both.
3. How long did the power flush take? If much less than a full day then, unless you have fewer than about eight radiators, may not have been done thoroughly.

Powerflush took all day, as mentioned, each rad done separtely by isolating all the other rads and then reversing the flow and positive flow through the boiler to clear it....all in 2022. Other questions already answered above.