Can this be built with permitted development?

[rjbell]

Untitled

• rjbell
• 15 Nov 2014
• 1

Untitled

• rjbell
• 15 Nov 2014
• 1

I've touched on this before but i was finding it hard to explain so i've got some crap drawings to help

My house is on a hill with the house ground level higher than the rear garden. In picture one (not to scale!) you can see the garden cut in 2 levels with a car port at the rear with plastic roof. I propose to build a garage with a lower roof the same height as ground level. This garage would be within the 50% of original outside space set out in the permitted development.

There are two problems i see with this proposal. The rear wall height, and the ability to walk on the roof. Because of the slope of the land the rear wall will be only 150-200cm from ground level of the house but the height at the rear lane will be more like 400cm. From where i've read ground level is defined as the level at which the house sits. so this shouldn't be a problem right?

The second issue is the roof being able to be walked on in effect becoming the garden space. Everything i can find regarding walking roofs say you need planning permission because of neighbours privacy however my roof will be at ground level. This wouldn't really apply to me, so would i just need building regs?

 

[tony1851]

1. The height is measured from the highest part of the natural ground level adjacent to the building, so no worries there.

2. The p.d. rules prohibit: " the construction or provision of a veranda, balcony or raised platform". Your garage roof could not be described as any of those in the normal, everyday meaning of the words. The fact that you would be able to walk on it is neither here nor there.

The golden rule about permitted development is that if anything is not specifically prohibited, it is permitted.

 

[rjbell]

Thank you Tony.

Would this build even be classed as a outbuilding and would it be restricted to the 50% rule?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

If its not connected to the house then its an outbuilding.

 

[cjard]

The second issue is the roof being able to be walked on in effect becoming the garden space. Everything i can find regarding walking roofs say you need planning permission because of neighbours privacy however my roof will be at ground level. This wouldn't really apply to me, so would i just need building regs?

The only thing I've found when looking at this in the past is in relation to defining verandahs , balconies and raised platforms - there isn't an explicit definition of these things, and the guideline is a platform that people would ordinarily walk on so you (and any appeal inspector) would have to ask the question as to whether a garage roof in your case becomes a roof terrace i.e. a platform that is normally walked on..

Hopefully no one will care and the argument won't even start.. But if you say your garden ends 4m lower than your house, does it mean your garden walls and anything that separates you from the neighbours is 5m high at the bottom of the garden and 1m high at the house? Or does the boundary wall follow the profile of the garden slope? If the garden wall was profile and max 1m high wherever it could be measured, and you whacked a 4 m high wall next to the neighbour so your garage could be 4m high at its opening (the bottom of the garden) you might encounter a complaint..

 

[LukeB123]

I wouldn't worry about the roof being able to be "walked on" too much.

I don't think (as mentioned) there's any regulations to cover it. I very much doubt it would be covered by the "Raised plaform" part - it is an outbuilding that has a roof, as long as it's Permitted development you should be fine.

If someone built exactly what you had in a normal garden, and put a ladder up the side and walked on it occasionally, I can't see how it would differ / be a breach (of planning) because it's permitted development. Just because yours is on a different gradient shouldn't make any difference.

 

[cjard]

If someone built exactly what you had in a normal garden, and put a ladder up the side and walked on it occasionally, I can't see how it would differ

It's outlying cases like this that the law cannot be reasonably expected to cover, so it would be the decision of an appeal inspector if it became an issue (by making the roof an easily accessible extension of the garden the council will likely take the opposite view to you if they want to make a point about it). You also have to appreciate that the ladder is a temporary measure, and unlikely to generate complaint - compare that with building a garage at the bottom of a slope and then filling in the triangular (prismatic) void with earth and flat decking the entire thing to gain a viewing/vantage point over someone else's garden; it's the perceived invasion of privacy that the law is aiming to prevent with a lot of the PD regs, and people get awfully funny about their privacy

It's doubtless something that has come up before - a good person to ask would be steve speed over at planning jungle. He'll likely be able to list cases (possibly decided either way) where similar structures have come up in appeals

 

[LukeB123]

Defintely. I was going to go into it further in my previous response, but felt as I typed a lengthy post I was deviating from the OP question, and also making it seem a bit boring! I could of also written lloads of IFS and Buts!

My personal view is that if it was built as a normal roof, then you would be fine.
If it was purposely built to be walked on, then that may cause an issue.

Even if it was built without the intention to be walked on, but has the ability to be walked on, I would say that is okay (but would need to be argued - again the whole temporary ladder thing would be similar to this)

If you're building decking / railings / even some sort of reinforcement in the roof, I'd start to question it then - but it's still debatable unless there's been a specific case that gives weight to elements. Interesting though!

 

[rjbell]

Thank you I will ask Steve over on planning jungle.

 

[SimonH2]

Build the garage such that you can't walk on the roof - that's PD and no arguments.
Then build some decking that's no more than 300mm above ground level at the highest point of the ground - that's PD with no arguments.

Oh, the decking goes over the top of the garage, who'd have thought it