Ceiling Rose lighting - appear to have two “switch live” cables?

[Manoverboard]

Hi all,

I was wondering if you could help.

I’m trying to fit a new LED light fitting and have been doing a bit of research into the “switch live” cables found in a loop system to the switch, however I appear to have two switch live cables. Or at least that’s how I’m viewing it.

Both neutral cables have brown sleeving and both go into the live connector - why would this be?

My plan is to wire this all up using waygo connectors in a junction box but every diagram I see only has one switch live

Any advice much appreciated

 

[EFLImpudence]

Both neutral cables have brown sleeving and both go into the live connector - why would this be?

There might be a couple of explanations so first can we have a more explicit picture seeing all the connections?

My plan is to wire this all up using waygo connectors in a junction box but every diagram I see only has one switch live

There are many variations of lighting arrangements.
There could be a second light - or a fan.

 

[Risteard]

That is truly awful workmanship.

 

[terryplumb]

Both neutral cables have brown sleeving and both go into the live connector - why would this be


View attachment 304380View attachment 304381

Because it's been wired up by an idiot.
!!!

 

[Manoverboard]

There might be a couple of explanations so first can we have a more explicit picture seeing all the connections?


There are many variations of lighting arrangements.
There could be a second light - or a fan.

Thanks for the reply

Re the picture I think I’d struggle to show any more than the other pictures as they are all tangled around

There are 3 grey cables coming from the roof - 3 red wires are bundled together with tape.

3 earths are in the earth terminal

2 neutrals have had tape placed around them and placed in the the same live terminal, and the remaining neutral is in the neutral terminal.

There are no other lights or fans etc in the room or anything else controlled by the light switch.


Thanks again

 

[Wayners]

The live switch may go to another light so that 2 lights turn on. Might not have that second light now.
Tidy that wiring up.

 

[mikeyd]

It's impossible to tell without testing it but at a guess you might have a normal loop in / loop out / switch wire setup.

The 3 red wires bundled together should be in the middle 3 terminals of the rose marked loop.
The 2 black sleeved red possibly shouldn't be sleeved and go in the right hand side of the rose with the blue wire.
The single black currently in with the blue could be the switch live and should be sleeved red and put in the left terminal with the brown.
But as said it's not guaranteed without testing.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Re the picture I think I’d struggle to show any more than the other pictures as they are all tangled around

Ok.

There are 3 grey cables coming from the roof - 3 red wires are bundled together with tape. 3 earths are in the earth terminal

Right. That would appear to be a 'normal' loop in, loop out and switch cable.

2 neutrals have had tape placed around them and placed in the the same live terminal, and the remaining neutral is in the neutral terminal.

2 blacks have had tape placed around them and placed in the live terminal, and the remaining black is in the neutral terminal.

There are no other lights or fans etc in the room or anything else controlled by the light switch.

That is now shown by the three reds being connected together.

So - it looks like someone, for some reason, has put red/tape on the two black wires which ARE neutral instead of the single black wire which must be the switched live.
Then, presumably because of this, someone has connected the brown and blue wires the wrong way round.

 

[Manoverboard]

Hello all,

Thanks again for your replies. I am not an electrician and have very limited experience with this so your help is much appreciated.

Right. That would appear to be a 'normal' loop in, loop out and switch cable.


2 blacks have had tape placed around them and placed in the live terminal, and the remaining black is in the neutral terminal.

View attachment 304415


That is now shown by the three reds being connected together.

So - it looks like someone, for some reason, has put red/tape on the two black wires which ARE neutral instead of the single black wire which must be the switched live.
Then, presumably because of this, someone has connected the brown and blue wires the wrong way round.

so if the brown and blue wires are the wrong way round, is there a reason why the light still worked normally?

 

[terryplumb]

The light would still work normally , the bulb isn't polarity sensitive.
As EFL advised above the two black wires together are neutrals and the single black is the switched live.

 

[Manoverboard]

Thanks all again. Now I’m confident where the wires should be going I’ll have a go at wiring it up into a junction box this weekend

 

[Manoverboard]

Thanks all again. Now I’m confident where the wires should be going I’ll have a go at wiring it up into a junction box this weekend

 

[securespark]

If you want to be certain, use a multimeter set to 400V and test between the terminal with the two wires in and the earth terminal. The reading should be zero, or very close to it.
If it is, those two wires are the neutral loop.