Certification for consumer units

[SparkyNinja]

Apologies guys if this has been discussed, but I just have enough time to post this before a meeting..

when changing a consumer unit, which way would you do it:

Periodoc Inspection Report>Change C.U.>New Installation certificate

Change C.U.>New installation certificate

Periodic Inspection>Change C.U.

or other???

I was under the impression, and correct me if I'm wrong, that a periodic initially would be 'a good idea' however not essential.
Whilst changing the C.U. then do the New Installation Cert is the way it must be done. With notification of course if relevant.

However some discussion on a forum within my workplace have suggested periodic initially only


I just want to get an opinion from here, and if there is anywhere you can refer me to.. references etc that I can put forward that would be great.

 

[Spark123]

It is certainly recommendable having a PIR done before having a CU change as it should highlight any problems with the installation which may only come to light after the CU change.
As part of the CU change an EIC must be completed to comply with BS7671 regardless of wether or not a PIR has been carried out.

 

[daytona]

spark 123 has answered the question already.

think about it though,if only a PIR up front,how do you show that you left the installation in a safe condition after the CU change?

 

[SparkyNinja]

think about it though,if only a PIR up front,how do you show that you left the installation in a safe condition after the CU change?

That's the exact point I've been trying to express. When you disconnect the existing, manoeuver the cables accordingly, making them off if they're now too long etc... and reconnecting. There's a lot of opportnities for cabling to get stretched, shortened, insulation damaged etc. Needless to say that you could balls it up reconnecting...

Cheers guys.

 

[Click-Sure]

So, what you are saying is do a PIR (which is basically a test and inspect) then change the CU and its Job Done? No, you need to test and inspect afterwards in order to complete the EIC.

Doing a PIR before a CU change is just advisable so you know what you are getting yourself into.

 

[SparkyNinja]

So, what you are saying is do a PIR (which is basically a test and inspect) then change the CU and its Job Done? No, you need to test and inspect afterwards in order to complete the EIC.

Doing a PIR before a CU change is just advisable so you know what you are getting yourself into.

Yeah, err no...

I'm saying what you are saying... guys in my workplace are saying what you think I am saying.

So you are clarifying my opinion, so thanks

 

[Click-Sure]

Excellent

 

[regsmyth]

Well for those of us who really want to see what the experts think about this one, I'm a little confused by the dialogue.
However, for my money, I'd say that as a proper spark, you would normally carry out a few checks before you did anything (like covering yourself in case of a future problem, or saving your skin in case of a more immediate problem). It might highlight some things you need to resolve, it might show everythings fine. As widdler says, it's probably more likely you mess up something on the cu change, so you need to do your full PIR afterwards, then issue the cert. Well that's what I'd do if I was a proper spark.

 

[333rocky333]

However, for my money, I'd say that as a proper spark, you would normally carry out a few checks before you did anything

And reg 130-07-01 asks for some checks regarding the earthing and bonding BEFORE starting the work.

 

[Spark123]

so you need to do your full PIR afterwards, then issue the cert.

A Periodic Inspection Report (PIR) may be carried out before to determine any remedial actions required to bring the installation up to scratch.
An inspection and test needs to be carried out to the installation after changing a fuse board, this needs to be recorded on an Electrical Installation Certificate, not a PIR.

 

[securespark]

think about it though,if only a PIR up front,how do you show that you left the installation in a safe condition after the CU change?

That's the exact point I've been trying to express. When you disconnect the existing, manoeuver the cables accordingly, making them off if they're now too long etc... and reconnecting. There's a lot of opportnities for cabling to get stretched, shortened, insulation damaged etc. Needless to say that you could balls it up reconnecting...

Cheers guys.

But not just limited to the CU end of affairs...you need to demonstrate with an EIC that the whole wiring system is healthy. Even that which you have not touched.

 

[regsmyth]

A Periodic Inspection Report (PIR) may be carried out before to determine any remedial actions required to bring the installation up to scratch.
An inspection and test needs to be carried out to the installation after changing a fuse board, this needs to be recorded on an Electrical Installation Certificate, not a PIR.

Yes ok that's sort of what I was trying to say, thanks for clarifying. I meant that the preliminary "check" may possibly not need to be fully comp, and all written down, if full tests are going to be done after the cu change anyway. On the other hand, if things don't go well after the cu change, it might be clever to have the full PIR results to help solve the problems, and placate the client. As far as the original question goes, I suppose in an ideal world it just makes changing a cu a long and very expensive (and safe!) job.

 

[daytona]

reg,a CU change is a long and expensive job if its going to be done how it should be,there is no getting away from that.

 

[DESL]

Both a PIR and EIC require forms 3 & 4 appended to them.

When I carry out a CU change I complete these two forms before old board is removed.

As I reconnect each cct to new CU I double check IR readings.

Once new CU is energised and of course any remedial work has been completed and tested I measure Zs on each cct.

Also 17th ed does not allow any LIMs on form 3 for an EIC so all remedials need sorting.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But not just limited to the CU end of affairs...you need to demonstrate with an EIC that the whole wiring system is healthy. Even that which you have not touched.

What do you mean by "demonstrate" and "healthy"?

And what if you can't "demonstrate" that the whole wiring system is "healthy"? (NOTE - failure to detect any problems is not proof that there are none.)