CFL downlighters dimming and external control gear

[AnimalGlu]

Hi,

Although I have used halogen lights to spot light some book shelves in a study, I'm looking for a lighting solution for my bedroom.

Currently we have three R50 bulbs in cental uplighter in a 3m by 4.5m room. This is useless, although the dimmer is used alot.

I have been in several hotels rooms that seem to be lighting a similar environment with either halogen or CFL downlights that are 5cm in diameter.

So I have been reading many posts in the forum, regarding downlighters and I agree that they are really only used for spotlighting. I'm interested in how I get achieve a even lighting solution in this room.

My starting point would be four CFL based downlighters using external control gear (?electric ballast?) as I need the use of a dimmer.

Are there any flat CFL's that are approx. 8cm in diameter and would that light my room appropriately. I was thinking something like this:
http://www.megamanuk.com/pdfs/fozz/cronos.pdf

Finally, since I would like a dimmer, I understand that I need to match this to the rating of the lights used, are there any dimmers like these to work with lower wattage CFL's?
http://sparksdirect.wordpress.com/2...-questions-about-dimmers-and-dimming-systems/
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Screwless-Flat-Plate-Electronic-Dimmer/invt/204935?source=123_4

Does anyone have a suggestion about where I can buy the required hardware as I'm a bit lost and all I can seem to find are recessed downlighters for double turn CFL's.

Thanks in advance

 

[Chri5]

Those lamps can't be dimmed.

At £40 with lamp maybe a GU10 with 6w LED would be a better idea.

You can convert the hole size with something like this:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GU10-Low-Volt...5807533QQihZ015QQcategoryZ29510QQcmdZViewItem

google R50 to GU10 converter brings a host of products.

If you go down the route of GU10's you need to specify dimmerble lamps, LED 7w are circa £30 each and Megaman 11w circa £10

The dimmer will have to be suitable low watt since 4 or 6 units would amount to 28w to 66w. Some dimmers won't work on such a light load.

Hope that helps

 

[Steve]

Google for PL downlights. They are typically 13cm in diameter and take two "every saving" type lamps. They are very bright. You might have seen them in banks and in use in shops.

If you find any, see if you can see any dimmable ones, or failing that replace the ballasts with dimmable ones, but they might require special wiring to both a dimmer and a switch.

 

[ericmark]

Abroad where the ambient temperature is a lot higher than ours CFU have been used for many years.

They don't even try to dim them but arrange them on two switches with 1/3 on one switch and 2/3 on other this gives three levels of light without use of a dimmer unit.

There are lamps designed to dim but the cost goes up. However you don't need a dimming unit they will dim by switching action.

Theatres have special florescent units which will dim. But if you look at the price I think you will look for another method.

 

[Steve]

However you don't need a dimming unit they will dim by switching action.

You try showing people with slightly less intelligence how to do this. My mum and dad had a 2 way switch fitted at the foot of their stairs, and 20 years on they still cant remember which switch controls upstairs and which controls downstairs. If something this basic eludes them, what chance have they with a switch dimmable CFL? I actually bought them and showed them how to use it but I had to replace it with a standard CFL.

 

[AnimalGlu]

Google for PL downlights. They are typically 13cm in diameter and take two "every saving" type lamps. They are very bright. You might have seen them in banks and in use in shops.

If you find any, see if you can see any dimmable ones, or failing that replace the ballasts with dimmable ones, but they might require special wiring to both a dimmer and a switch.

I have been reading some of your posts in topics such as My CFL Downlights, finished!!!, and I have to say that I wasn't a fan of the PL lights discussed, they just seem too big, however I'm going to stick some templates on the ceiling to see how they would look.

So I assume that if I do use external control gear (to add dimmable ballast) that I can use a single 13W bulb rather than both? If so, I have some follow-up questions:-

• Can I have two circuits in each fitting?

• How many ballast would I need?

I assume a ballast such as this is suitable? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OSRAM-2-x-14w...UK_BOI_Lights_Lighting_ET&hash=item3a619e19f4

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I wasn't a fan of the PL lights discussed, they just seem too big

You can get ones where the lamp is vertical. If your ceiling void is deep enough then they will give you a smaller light.

e.g.

The problem of course is that the smaller they get the more spotlight-ish they become....

 

[AnimalGlu]

You can get ones where the lamp is vertical. If your ceiling void is deep enough then they will give you a smaller light.

The problem of course is that the smaller they get the more spotlight-ish they become....

I was looking at a similar fitting here: http://www.qvsdirect.com/Low-Energy-18W-PL-Downlight-C-w-Lamp-2-Bezels-IP44-pr-23522.html

Another concern withing this fitting is I can't fit it inside a LoftCap with the control gear attached and it doesn't look removable. Do I need a LoftCap if the fitting is enclosed?

Alternatively, a fitting made by Robus appears to have a removable ballast.

If I do use the above light, with this ballast, that is 4x 18W = 72W and I believe that I then need a 144W rated dimmer switch. Okay, maybe not 144W but the lowest I can find is 250W.

Does anyone have any experience buying low rated dimmers or do I need to use a DALI based control system?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do I need a LoftCap if the fitting is enclosed?

No - you can easily build something yourself out of plasterboard/ply/MDF to keep the insulation away and seal it to the ceiling with silicone/plasterboard adhesive.

I believe that I then need a 144W rated dimmer switch. Okay, maybe not 144W but the lowest I can find is 250W.

You don't use a regular dimmer switch.

See the part of the description where it says "DIMMABLE 1-10v"...

You could use DALI or DMX to control a 1-10v dimmer, but that would be a bit overkill, unless you like automation for its own sake. A knob on the wall that you twiddle would be easier and cheaper.


//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=236100

 

[AnimalGlu]

You don't use a regular dimmer switch.

See the part of the description where it says "DIMMABLE 1-10v"...

You could use DALI or DMX to control a 1-10v dimmer, but that would be a bit overkill, unless you like automation for its own sake. A knob on the wall that you twiddle would be easier and cheaper.


//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=236100

Excellent topic, it was very helpful.

RPS1 installation & wiring options

I'm going to use that Multiload RPS1 switch, in combination with an intermediate switch, so I can turn this ciruit off from the side of the bed. This RPS1 switch has a max rating of 10A, so I'm well off that with just 4x 2x13W fittings.

I'll give Multiload a call on Tuesday but I thought you might have some insight? I assume that the 2-core control signal cable can be 1.5mm T&E (although I thought you could buy 2-core without earth) and it would be joined in separate junction boxes from the Mains cable?

 

[aptsys]

I wasn't a fan of the PL lights discussed, they just seem too big

You can get ones where the lamp is vertical. If your ceiling void is deep enough then they will give you a smaller light.

e.g.

The problem of course is that the smaller they get the more spotlight-ish they become....

We have these in the hall and bathroom and they're great - the bathroom lights have the IP44 glass cover which totally remove any spotlighting kind of effect.