Change of use from residentual dwelling to cat breeding

[JLX45V]

Wrexham council want me to apply for retrospective planning for change of use on my home to a business.

I am confused here.

I live at and own my property. I have 9 cats, which I have a maximum of 4 litters per year from, because both myself and my partner work full time, so to have more would be unmanageable. A cat is pregnant for 9 weeks, then as a breeder we keep the kittens until they are 13 weeks. That is approximately 5 months duration for each cat, therefore we stagger the litters. a Litter can be 1-5 kittens. No specific exact amount can be forecast.

Lets say that we have 4 litters with 5 kittens in each. that is 20 kittens in a 365 day period.

Each kitten will have a maximum of 2 visits from new owners. That is once to choose, once to collect. That is 40 visits in total in 365 days. That is one visit per week for 40 weeks of the year, no visits for 12 weeks of the year.

Apparently I am causing traffic chaos even though visitors park on my drive.

The council now want me to change the use of my place of residence to a commercial cattery.

I do not have other peoples cats visiting, I do not board other peoples cats, I do not charge money to keep other peoples cats at my home.

The only cats at my home are my pets, who I happen to breed from no more than 4 times a year.

What chance do I have of the council rejecting the retrospective planning permission for change of use (that is in fact not changing at all)?

 

[^woody^]

Is this an "On my way to St Ives ..... " riddle?

If you are running a business then you need the appropriate planning permission and pay the appropriate business rates

 

[tony1851]

I can't follow the maths either, but if you don't believe you are causing anyone any loss of amenity, then why make a planning application? They can't force you to do this.

The only realistic sanction they have is one of enforcement and they do not do that lightly.

Having said that, 9 cats seems a bit much. Have they been making a nuisance of themselves? Some keen gardeners don't like cats p*****g on their rhubarb.

 

[JLX45V]

Tony1865

4 litters x 5 kittens per litter = 20 kittens in total.
20 kittens x 1 new owner each = 20 owners
20 owners x 2 visits each = 40 visits
There are 52 weeks in a year
1 visit per owner x 40 owners = 1 visit per week for 40 weeks.
How hard is the math in that?

My cats are indoor cats, have never gone out and do not crap in peoples gardens.

My house is spotless and there is no odour.

And what has that got to do with planning applications?


Woody

I am registered self employed, so I pay tax on ALL my earnings.

When I registered self employed I went on a government workshop course over a 12 week period.
I was told by the 'experts' at the workshop that my level of breeding was not constituted as a 'business' and because I do not have anybody else's cat on my premises at any time I am not a cattery.

 

[rjm2k]

You will probably find a local councilor lives nearby

1 visit per owner x 40 owners = 1 visit per week for 40 weeks.

But surely some people don't buy or come back many times? so that's more visits?

My cats are indoor cats, have never gone out and do not crap in peoples gardens.

I think you will find that if you were to open an indoor restaurant or hair salon they would still want PP

My house is spotless and there is no odour.
And what has that got to do with planning applications?

Nothing, of course, just like a spotless restaurant or hair salon would have nothing to do with planning either.

I was told by the 'experts' at the workshop that my level of breeding was not constituted as a 'business' and because I do not have anybody else's cat on my premises at any time I am not a cattery.

Not planning experts then? Maybe not a cattery, but a business nonetheless.

You have 3 options

1. Apply for PP - from the fact they are telling you to apply I would guess you won't get it and will have to go to appeal or fight enforcement

2. Wait for enforcement and fight it

3. Stop breeding cats

Life's a b*tch, especially if it involves PP!

 

[OwainDIYer]

Is any part of the premises exclusively used for the cat breeding activities?

If not, then even if the cat breeding is a business activity, the premises remain a domestic dwelling house.

If you apply for change of use and it is rejected, the implication is that you will have to cease cat breeding.

If you apply for change of use and it is accepted, then (a) you will need commercial not domestic insurance (b) your mortgage (if any) will have to become a commercial mortgage (c) you will have to pay business rates and commercial tariffs for water, sewage and waste collection (d) you lose the principle dwelling exemption on capital gains tax when you sell the premises.

In short, it's a nightmare, and you would probably be unwise to voluntarily apply for change of use. Leave it up to the council to consider the expense and time in taking enforcement action. In the meantime, consider which neighbour you've upset.

 

[tony1851]

Tony1865

4 litters x 5 kittens per litter = 20 kittens in total.

.

Sorry, but you've lost me there - I was away when we did maths.

I was told by the 'experts' at the workshop that my level of breeding was not constituted as a 'business' and because I do not have anybody else's cat on my premises at any time I am not a cattery.

If you were told by 'experts' that your activity didn't need planning permission, what's the problem?

PS as per Owain's post, don't tow the council's line - put your argument to them as you've done here, and see what they come up with.

 

[geraldthehamster]

3. Stop breeding cats

Would be my strong suggestion. Rescue centres are full of unwanted cats, without people brreding more. It's an animal welfare issue.

Cheers
Richard

 

[big-all]

hows about asking for clarification on at what level they consider it being a commercial enterprise then you have a level to stay below

but what ever happens its your home with possibly part as a buisiness

not sure how you know your cats dont poo elsewhere ???

 

[munchingB]

not being a smart ass but you say you have 9 cats. potentially you can have 180 kittens a year. assuming they are all working girl cats.
also the visitor numbers are going to increase because everyone loves kitties and that might pee your neighbours off when they have had their parking space consumed.

are you giving your cats away for free or are you selling them?

i think there in lays the definition of a business if anyone wanted to pin it to you and your business so very directly depends on the actual premises that given the potential quantity of live fur at anyone time might well be considered a cattery bitterly by your neighbours.

im surprised that they havnt got the rspca onto you already if you keep them locked indoors stuffed with babies all the time. how the hell do they get pregnant if you dont let them out? ..or is that the evenings entertainment?

your house might not smell of their pee pee but your brains are riddled with toxoplasma.

 

[Deluks]

assuming they are all working girl cats.

Are you suggesting that the OP is running some sort of cathouse?

 

[rjm2k]

your house might not smell of their pee pee but your brains are riddled with toxoplasma.

I wonder if anyone other than the OP thinks the place doesn't smell, it's amazing what people get used to as being normal.

 

[HERTS P&D]

180 kittens a year/not going outside and she thinks her house don't smell!



Andy

 

[mattylad]

Its not nice to keep cats inside all the time, they deserve to go and hunt & chase birds.

 

[Nerual]

It's amazing how quickly people make assumptions when it comes down to breeding. I think the idea of talking with the council and sticking to the limits is a good one. What I do know is that any earnings are meant to be declared, so maybe this is what they are after, most probably!