Changing 3" union locks for 2.5" locks

[skhudy]

Hi, I've got a bunch of doors with 3" union 3 lever locks in them. Some are faulty, and I've found some locks online which are union 3 lever, however they are 2.5"

Will the smaller locks fit in the doors ok with a half inch gap behind or could there be problems?

Thanks in advance

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The gap isn't really an issue, but I'm not certain that backset will be the same because there are many variations within even a single manufacturer, so you need to check this:

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• Deleted member 174758
• 8 Apr 2015
• 1

(a picture is worth......, etc) If it is then you'll be OK, if not you may need to patch and redrill the faces of the doors. Also there's no guarantee that the keeper will be compatible. Mostly they are, but it's never 100% in my experience.

 

[JohnD]

the backset is certainly different, so you will need to make new keyholes and spindle holes. It would be much easier to fit the same brand and size as before. Do the old ones have silver cases, or black?

I presume these are bedroom doors? A 3 lever lock is not burglar resistant.

 

[big-all]

as an aside
if you have knobs rather than levers with the reduced clearance off 2 1/2" you may catch your knuckles

 

[skhudy]

Thanks for the replies

The 8 locks in question (probably 40 years old), all work off a master key - it's in a small business. From what I can see these are very expensive to replace with new - hence I was looking at a set of 2nd hand ones.

The problem with the existing is the mechanism doesn't work well in 3 of them and a couple of keys have snapped inside as he keys got stuck.

Out of interest, does anyone have any ideas / suggestions on other locking solutions which work of a master key? i.e I could leave the existing ones in place and add another lock e.g yale type - but I did need a set of locks which work off a master key

 

[JohnD]

if they are Union, and work off a master key, they are probably Butters System which I think is 4-lever, otherwise they will be Warded locks which are rubbish.
What colour is the case?

Butters might still be made, but will be more expensive than ordinary locks. The case might be painted bronze metallic.

3-lever locks on a master key will be very insecure, because of the way they will have to be made.

Chubb detainer locks can be mastered, but will be expensive.

Are you sure you mean Mastered, and not Suited?


If you do not need very high security, you could go for Eurocylinders. It will be possible to have them mastered at extra cost.

If Mastering is not very important to you and you want to save money, measure the existing lock cases very very carefully and accurately, and buy a 3-inch mortice lock to fit. I have some NOS 3-inch 5-lever locks I might sell.

Or get cheap 3-inch locks and carry eight keys rather than one Master.

http://www.screwfix.com/search?search=mortice+locks#backsetsizeimperial=3__&sort_by=price

 

[skhudy]

If it helps the lock is this one

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• skhudy
• 8 Apr 2015
• 1

and I was looking at these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221721569908

Union locks might be o.k, I will look into that. Many thanks for your reply!

 

[JohnD]

please show us the print on the plate that screws to the front.

Those ebay locks are insecure.

 

[skhudy]

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• skhudy
• 8 Apr 2015
• 1

 

[JohnD]

yes, it's a poor quality warded lock. Given three minutes and a file, any competent person who had seen or handled any of your keys could make a master to open any of them.

In a business, no person with a lock to one office or store can be made to accept responsibility for what happens in it, because the holder of the passkey (or a made-up key) can enter the room at will, so the designated keyholder has no control over access.