Changing Danfoss TP9000/5000 to Drayton Wiser Kit 3

[djewson]

Good morning,

we have just moved into our new (to us) home recently.
At our old address we had a Nest on our old heating system which was great.
However our new system is a 3 zone, so nest was an expensive proposition.

We now have
a Danfoss system

TP9000 controlling House Heating and Water
TP5000 controlling Heating to the Living room only.
Weird I know !!
but anyway it is what it is.

I was advised by the engineer that came out recently to service our boiler after talking about smart systems, he recommended the Wiser Kit 3.

Due to its ability to control 3 zones and ease of installation.

Ok so our set up is
TP9000 in the Hallway and the TP5000 almost back to back with it in the living room.

So wiring wise I think I'm ok with the TP9000 and replacing the plate to the included wiser one.
I have had a look at the wiring and have Live, Neutral and a wire on 3 and 4 for the heating a water.
Which I will need to change for the new plate and the wiser.

My main query is the TP5000.
I've not had this off as yet, but assume it will be a 2 wire affair with possibly another L and N.

I think I will need to extend the wiring for this from the existing wires to reach the Hallway Plate so it can be wired in to the Wiser Plate

My questions are -
of the wires in the TP5000, which will I need to extend ?

If there is a L and N also do I need to use these too or will the L and N in the TP9000 be sufficient to close the Living room circuit or is the L and N purely to power the TP5000, so will not be needed and can be terminated behind the living room wall plate.

Many thanks for reading

I'm looking forward to getting smart heating going again as the Danfoss stuff is doing my head in.

Thanks
Dean

 

[djewson]

this is the TP9000

 

[Deleted member 267285]

What do you mean by extend to the hallway? If you’ve got the 3 zone wiser, It appears to create additional zones, you need smart TRV’s, which you don’t mention. What are you trying to achieve, eg one zone, or keep 2 zones?

 

[djewson]

What do you mean by extend to the hallway? If you’ve got the 3 zone wiser, It appears to create additional zones, you need smart TRV’s, which you don’t mention. What are you trying to achieve, eg one zone, or keep 2 zones?

I am looking to wire up the existing 3 zones to the kit 3 set up
But would assume that the wiring to the tp5000 won't be long enough to reach back the hub where the current 9000 is, as much as it is almost back to back.
Hence the current wiring would need to be extended to be able reach the wiser hub and connected as the CH2

As stated the current set up is almost back to back
If they were close enough the 5000 wiring would be able to be flipped from living room side to hallway side, but I don't think it will

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Oh ok, my apologies I’ve just looked at the kit, I thought it was x2 receivers, my bad. If is back to back, then presumably all you’ll need is some flex cable and wire it up accordingly, keeping the switched live in place so it reaches the zone valve.

 

[djewson]

That's what I assumed
My question was more to do with the other wires in the tp5000

The switched section can be extended I think

It was more what to do with the other wires, i.e power, if they are there and would be needed etc

With regard to the 2 switched live wires
One will go to the CH2 connector
But where does the other go ?

I think the wiser would be pins 1,2 and 3 for ch1 ch2 and HW
(Not necessarily in that order from memory)

The others on the plate are live and neutral

Thanks

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Yes you only need one L and N to power the Wiser- make sure supplies for both the existing controllers are on the same fuse/circuit breaker at the CU, provided they are then use the most convenient pair, make the other pair safe.
Pic of the TP5000 would be helpful, don't think the Wiser will work with 3 port valve (in case you have one) but it does work with 3 x 2 port valves.
The Wiser 3 doesn't have the same switching as the existing- call for heat on a zone just sends live (from the supply to the controller) to the relevant pin. So you'll need to check which of pins 3 and 4 on the 9000 are permanent live and load- load goes to Wiser output (whichever zone), permanent live make safe (again check it's on the same fuse/MCB as all the other lives).

 

[Deleted member 267285]

I think you’d put them both in the same terminal as the thermostat will be the heat control and the hub will be the switching control.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

I think you’d put them both in the same terminal as the thermostat will be the heat control and the hub will be the switching control.

Oops- my bad, had a rush of something to the brain. Yes in the pics 3 and 4 are of course 1 heat zone and DHW so just determine which is which & connect to the appropriate terminals on the Wiser 3 hub.
TP5000 is the unknown...

 

[djewson]

This is the TP5000
Which is actually battery powered in the end

 

[djewson]

The wiring for the 3 zone wiser is supposed to be as follows

So from the 9000 I can work out which of the original 3 and 4 pins are heat and water and put these to pins 1 and 2

My issue with the tp5000 is I now have 2 wires
Com and N/O

The wiser plate doesnt have anything for common
So how would that work ??
Obviously one is for pin 3 for the 2nd heat zone but without a common where does the other wire connect

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Happy days. Check that the permanent live (should be the brown core in COM but never assume anything) is from the same fuse/circuit breaker as the TP9000 and is actually at 240v.
Assuming that checks out, the black core needs to connect to the remaining heat zone on the Wiser 3, make the permanent live safe (or remove it if you can,)

 

[djewson]

Ah I think I get you (lightbulb moment)
so if it's the same feed as the 9000 it will obviously be connected somewhere along the line so is basically a split of the same feed, which is already on the 9000 side anyway ??

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Yep, that's what should happen but people sometimes do strange things with heating control systems and you end up with borrowed neutrals, stray lives when you think you've isolated etc etc. Reason for checking it's actually at 240v- that TP5000 has volt free contacts so it is possible (highly unlikely) those wires are at 24v or 48v or pretty much anything. The Wiser doesn't have that option- its 240v out of the heat and DHW terminals- if you stuff 240v up a line that's expecting 24v you could have expensive consequences. So always check, never assume.

 

[mailliw]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, just a quick question. I have a near-identical setup and also want to replace with Wiser. But I don't care about the ridiculous 3rd zone (the heating for just one bedroom!). So I want just two zones - heating and water - and need to somehow combine both existing heating zones (which each have their own valves).

My thinking was to forget the TP9000 and TP4/5000 wiring and stick the Wiser box next to the boiler, and wire it directly. Would that work (combining two zones into one, using Wiser Kit 2 rather than Kit 3) or am I oversimplifying something way more complex?

Thanks