C
cumbriahandyman
Again, I have never said that, you made it up and for some reason believe yourself.
Changing Switch
- Thread starter andywalker09
- Start date
Again, I have never said that, you made it up and for some reason believe yourself.
Sponsored Links
And their ranks are swelling by the day...
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=269472
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=282446
Again, I have never said that, you made it up and for some reason believe yourself.
There is a distinction between the competence needed by a DIYer and a tradesman.
The tradesman needs to be competent to undertake any work that comes his way.
The DIYer only needs to be sufficiently competent to undertake the job in hand. That may be something simple such as connecting a plug, when "connect this to that" instructions are perfectly adequate and an understanding of electricity is unnecessary. There will be other jobs that require a higher degree of competence in which case only those DIYers with the appropriate competence should undertake them.
It's impossible to judge competence on the basis of a couple of posts on a forum. Only the DIYer himself is in a position to decide if he's competent to undertake the work. Only the DIYer makes the decision to do the work or not.
So, rather than pre-judging competence, why not give the information asked for so that the DIYer can decide if he or a tradesman should undertake the work?
The tradesman needs to be competent to undertake any work that comes his way.
The DIYer only needs to be sufficiently competent to undertake the job in hand. That may be something simple such as connecting a plug, when "connect this to that" instructions are perfectly adequate and an understanding of electricity is unnecessary. There will be other jobs that require a higher degree of competence in which case only those DIYers with the appropriate competence should undertake them.
It's impossible to judge competence on the basis of a couple of posts on a forum. Only the DIYer himself is in a position to decide if he's competent to undertake the work. Only the DIYer makes the decision to do the work or not.
So, rather than pre-judging competence, why not give the information asked for so that the DIYer can decide if he or a tradesman should undertake the work?
Sponsored Links
C
cumbriahandyman
Again, I have never said that, you made it up and for some reason believe yourself.
Only quantative, not qualitative.
The DIYer needs to be competent to undertake any work that he decides to undertake.
Sufficient = a genuine understanding. Sufficient = never doing something without knowing what you're doing.
No.
Unacceptable.
No.
Unacceptable.
It doesn't matter what the job is - whatever competence is needed must be there.
It was perfectly possible to determine from one post that the OP does not know what a switch does.
Not knowing what a switch does does not indicate anywhere near enough competence to be fiddling with them.
No.
Indeed.
Because giving the information asked for can lead the DIYer to do work without a genuine understanding of what's going on, and that is unacceptable.
Well, perhaps you could prevail on the stupid, irresponsible and dangerous little ***ts who think that it's OK to encourage people to do work when they don't understand what they are doing to stop peddling their stupid, irresponsible and dangerous nonsense.Another ruined thread
Being pragmatic, should it not read?
Because giving the information asked for can lead the DIYer to do work correctly even without a genuine understanding of what's going on, and that is safer.
I think I know the probable reply so -
thinking logically, it does seem rather incongruous if, on a DIY forum, we cannot answer questions because they are too simple, because surely, the simpler the question the more 'non-competent' the questioner must be.
Therefore all questions regarding lighting circuits (as in this case) are to be ignored because if the questioner were 'competent' and knowledgeable about electricity he would not be asking.
This leads on to the point of how complex and involved does the subject have to be before we can answer.
Having deduced that the poster is very well qualified and expert in the field. We decide that we shall answer his query,
but wait - he doesn't know how to do what he wants to do. He must be a bit thick.
Next!
Sorry Ban but I have to dis-agree with you.
By giving advice to the totally incompetent we knowledgable people can make that person realise the serious implications of what he or she is about to do. They may then decide to call in a professional.
If they decide to continue in DIY mode then advice and guidance can enable the work to be completed safely even if the person does not understand the way the circuit works.
By withholding advice and guidance we are letting that person do the work without the minimum knowledge and that will mean the work done is likely to be or to become dangerous,
It can stretch patience to the limit when explaining how to do something in minute detail to someone who may be holding a screw driver for the first time but it can benefit the advice giver as they see in far more detail how they themselves work. From that even the most experienced person can learn and improve their own methods.
By giving advice to the totally incompetent we knowledgable people can make that person realise the serious implications of what he or she is about to do. They may then decide to call in a professional.
If they decide to continue in DIY mode then advice and guidance can enable the work to be completed safely even if the person does not understand the way the circuit works.
By withholding advice and guidance we are letting that person do the work without the minimum knowledge and that will mean the work done is likely to be or to become dangerous,
It can stretch patience to the limit when explaining how to do something in minute detail to someone who may be holding a screw driver for the first time but it can benefit the advice giver as they see in far more detail how they themselves work. From that even the most experienced person can learn and improve their own methods.
C
cumbriahandyman
Why did you say the above, when you are now saying the oposite?
This is a DIY site, if you can't link that concept to your brain just stay on the side line and be quiet.
I thank you.
It is never safe to encourage people to believe that they can work on electrical installations without a proper understanding of what's going on.
You answer the questions not by providing the electrical equivalent of painting by numbers but by providing them with information which will teach them how it works.
Indeed.
So you address the incompetence and ignorance by providing foundation material, not by saying "put this wire in that hole" which will do absolutely nothing to improve the understanding that the questioner has.
No, ignorant. Not the same thing at all.
If after you've told him what to do it works but he still has no idea why, and could not explain it, you have failed him.
Not that it would happen in reality, but I find it useful to look at it like this.
Imagine somebody whose competence you had good reason to doubt came here for advice, after which he went away and did something which resulted in death or injury, and that you had been called to give evidence in a court case or inquest.
Question from barrister: "When <somebody> visited the site did you believe him to be competent to carry out the work which he planned to do?"
Answer from you: "No."
QFB: "What advice did you give him?"
At this point, which answer would you feel most comfortable with?
a) "I encouraged him to carry on, asking questions as he needed, and acquiring greater competence on the way."
or
b) "I told him that he was not competent enough to be doing this work, and that he should give up trying to do it until he was."
?
Not from his point of view - you have helped him get his lights on.
He didn't come on this site to get an electrotechnical lesson, he came on this site for help to quickly sort out a query he had.
Giving him a set of instructions to follow, as do most manufacturers of such equipment, makes common sense. I cannot see why you are making this out to be such a big deal!
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
