Changing Switch

[ban-all-sheds]

The concern of this site is safety and the giving of good advice,

Why did you say the above, when you are now saying the oposite?

I'm not saying the opposite.

I'm saying that good advice is to get people to learn what's going on and to acquire genuine knowledge and competence.

I'm saying that to simply tell people which wires go where, which won't teach them a thing about how it works, and which will encourage them to believe that they can fiddle with their wiring even though they don't know what they are doing is not good advice.

This is a DIY site, if you can't link that concept to your brain just stay on the side line and be quiet.

People must be competent to do electrical work.

It is not possible to be competent if you don't understand what you are doing and why.

If you can't grasp those fundamental truths then it is you who should stay on the side line and be quiet.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not from his point of view - you have helped him get his lights on.

As well as being ignorant of how things work it is also possible to be ignorant of the need to know.

He didn't come on this site to get an electrotechnical lesson, he came on this site for help to quickly sort out a query he had.

If he has no interest or willingness to learn electrotechnical lessons then he has the wrong attitude and should never pick up a screwdriver again.

Giving him a set of instructions to follow, as do most manufacturers of such equipment, makes common sense. I cannot see why you are making this out to be such a big deal!

Because him learning how it works is the only acceptable basis on which he should proceed.

 

[riveralt]

I personally don't think the OP gives a toss about what you think on this subject BAS.
His objective was to get help to sort out a simple problem - from which you have created a 4 page and counting vitriolic rant.
He was wise enough to ask for help by coming on this site.
He was helpful enough to take a photograph of the two switches.
He had the forethought to take the photograph before he disconnected the wiring.
As for comparing him to cmossom. Well there is a hell of a lot of difference between someone who thinks he knows what he is doing but hasn't really got a clue - cmossom - and has the certificates to 'proooooove it' and someone like the OP who recognises his limitations and comes on this DIY site and asks for help.
I am the first to tell posters that they should get an electrician if I think they are going beyond their capabilities, but in the OP's case, apart from the cpc issue, he has come prepared and asked for help - not to be burned at the stake for doing so.
If we all follow your rather narrow minded view then there seem very little point in this site existing in its present format.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

His objective was to get help to sort out a simple problem

And the help we should have given him was the knowledge needed to be able to work out the resolution to his problem himself.

- from which you have created a 4 page and counting vitriolic rant.

I have not ranted at the OP.

And don't you f*****g dare blame me for the length of the thread when I'm attacked for putting forward the view that we should assist people to gain competence. Do you really think I'm not going to defend my position?

He was wise enough to ask for help by coming on this site.
He was helpful enough to take a photograph of the two switches.
He had the forethought to take the photograph before he disconnected the wiring.

Absolutely.

And giving him the knowledge of how switches work would have sent him on his way with the resolution to his problem.

As for comparing him to cmossom. Well there is a hell of a lot of difference between someone who thinks he knows what he is doing but hasn't really got a clue - cmossom - and has the certificates to 'proooooove it' and someone like the OP who recognises his limitations and comes on this DIY site and asks for help.

You'll be able to show where I compared him to cmossom, will you?

I am the first to tell posters that they should get an electrician if I think they are going beyond their capabilities, but in the OP's case, apart from the cpc issue,

"Apart from the cpc issue"?

That reminds me of "Apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?".

he has come prepared and asked for help - not to be burned at the stake for doing so.

You'll be able to show where I "burned him at the stake", will you?

If we all follow your rather narrow minded view then there seem very little point in this site existing in its present format.

Why is it narrow minded to believe that the best way to help people is to teach them what they need to know to be able to help themselves?

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

 

[riveralt]

.

- from which you have created a 4 page and counting vitriolic rant.

I have not ranted at the OP.

I never said you were ranting at the OP - your vitriolic rant was/is towards those people who have put forward reasoned arguments as to why, in this case, you are wrong. Other people can disagree with you.

And don't you f*****g dare blame me for the length of the thread when I'm attacked for putting forward the view that we should assist people to gain competence. Do you really think I'm not going to defend my position?

Do you feel better for that unnecessary expletive?

Why is it narrow minded to believe that the best way to help people is to teach them what they need to know to be able to help themselves?
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

But this is where you are missing the point,, he doesn't need to rewire his house (he can go on a five day course for that)- he just needs to change a switch - simples!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I never said you were ranting at the OP - your vitriolic rant was/is towards those people who have put forward reasoned arguments as to why, in this case, you are wrong.

They haven't put forward any reasoned arguments as to why genuine understanding isn't needed - they have only said that it's OK for people to do electrical work without knowing what they are doing as long as they get away with it.

They are wrong, and dangerously so.

Do you feel better for that unnecessary expletive?

It's not unnecessary - it was to demonstrate the outrage that I felt when you tried to hold me responsible for the length of this topic, as if somehow I should sit quietly by and let people criticise me, and promote what I believe is a dangerous agenda, for fear of making the topic too long.

But this is where you are missing the point,, he doesn't need to rewire his house (he can go on a five day course for that)- he just needs to change a switch - simples!

Yes, and to do that he needs to learn how the switch works, i.e. how it functions, not just to be told which wires to put in which terminals.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

looks like sheddy's Zaponex prescription has run out again

 

[cumbriahandyman]

looks like sheddy's Zaponex prescription has run out again

Is this the Schiller he is on about?
http://www.maureenschiller.co.uk/