Chaotic tradesmen

[Goldspoon]

I am presently writing something that has a thesis of: the absence of rules, order and procedures leads to low quality.

So I am using two characters to demonstrate the point: both are tradesman.

Character 1 is very organised/smart van/tidy van/quotes on typed headed paper etc. Whilst working he is continually adjusting his working area so it is tidy. Everything is measured to the mm and quality is always high. Drives safely and carefully - does not jump the lights. Organised finances and accounts.

Character 2 although very knowledgeable is chaotic/tatty van/untidy van/rusty tools (left out in rain showers)/quotes hand written or verbal/working area "like a bomb went off". Things are usually measured but things sometimes end up a few mm off and "because the spirit level was at home or buried in the van" then "I'm sure they'll not notice". Drives very fast, jumps lights, angry driver. This character can change behaviour to some extent when with peers but always reverts to type.

I don't think I need to go any further as I am sure you may have met both types (and some in the middle).

I understand what motivates character 1. But what can motivate character 2? Note: I am looking at "motivation" to get some depth in characters - e.g. a person might drive slowly because their father died in a car crash or a person might be tight because they once went bankrupt. What on earth, from his past, might lead to the behaviour of our character 2?

Any character 2's out there can help - or anybody know any?

 

[yaleguy3]

How about genetics.
How about wether someone is untidy because their mum always tidied up after them.
How about single parent with no fathers control
How about someone who is tidy because they have OCD
How abut lazyness.

I have three kids and all are different. One is incredibly untidy but I don't attribute his habits to lazyness because it goes beyond that. he never yurns off lights or shuts cupboard doors or even flushes a toilet. Something in his brain just cannot think of finishing a task.
My other son leaves everything to the last second. Letters that need signing are thrust in my hand on the way to school etc.

I therefore think it is genetic.

 

[daneski88]

My father was very bright and very adaptable. But he was totally disorganised to extreme measures - tools all over the place, jobs half finished, etc etc etc.

As such all three of his children have a propensity to tackle things in the same way, even though we know that this is far from ideal. In my brother's case he reacted to the make-do-with-any-tool-or-material-that-worked aspect of our father's work by buying everything from new. For example, instead of repeatedly changing a drill bit to a screwdriver, he would rather go and buy a new drill to save him the effort (Dewalt, of course). Inevitably however, he is one of the untidiest workers you will find even though he aspires not to be.

I'm inclined to measure things properly and will get and use "correct" tools when not to do so will be burdensome. Athough my natural tendency is to work in a bit of a hovel, I make the effort to temper this fairly frequently and will tidy up a few times throughout the day.

All in all I think it's down to the way you are brought up and what you have seen. You either adopt or rebel against it, depending on how lazy you are

 

[jono_h]

I'm a bit of both types. I'll always wear my branded clothing for Customers and quotes are typed up on headed paper.

But the back of my van is a tip, and I rarely keep an area tidy whilst working. My motivation? Well all I know is that my satisfaction is derived from getting on with the job, and creating / fixing / finishing something. Tidying up in the middle of a job is just an annoyance that stops me using my skills to do something great!

My only saving grace, is that no matter how untidy, I can just about always tell you which pile of crap my spirit level is under!

 

[1john]

I dont believe that the title of the theisis is correct, I work in what would be seen to be chaos, I know where everything is and where averything is going, I think the main issue could be productivity rather than quality of finish, I always have a tape measure and levels to hand, thats why they arn't forever being put away. On reflection, having all the equipment i may need all around the place makes it quicker for me to be using the correct tools required for the job, perhaps it doesn't effect productivity, congratulation, I am confused now and am pondering something which had never srossed my mind before. Also I dont believe that my traits have been ifluenced by a third party, although perhaps a third party could tell me otherwise

 

[Goldspoon]

Very interesting point John regarding productivity v quality.

I used to run a small factory with ten to fifteen workers (team members later!). When I arrived it was fairly chaotic. One example was that there were a few tools that everybody shared (the more expensive tools). One person used one of these tools and the next person would wander around looking for it. I added a central board where these tools hung (imagine pliers with outline drawn on board sort of thing). At first the workers resented it because I continually had to keep telling them to "put it back on the board". Soon it became "self policing" with workers getting pi**ed off if it was not in place. That's one example, lots of other things over a year improved both productivity and quality.

With regard to thesis title being incorrect: as I believe it to be a thesis is merely a statement up for discussion so cannot be incorrect (can be proven wrong via debate). E.g. a thesis can be "coal is white - discuss".

 

[WoodYouLike]

I am presently writing something that has a thesis of: the absence of rules, order and procedures leads to low quality.

do you mean in general or only for self-employed traders (one-man band?)

I do agree with the absence of the above "qualities" lead to low quality work delivered, time and material wasted (not to mention changes of proper word-of-mouth wasted).
Training comes into it too, how was/is the trader trained? On the job by an "untidy" mentor? Quite often it is then seen as "how it is done in our trade".

Also, traditional attitude comes in to it. A builder's van arrives on site and the most important tool is out as first: the kettle to take a tea break every hour it seems

 

[Infidel]

3 things also dictate your attitude to your working environment. Are you Self employed, or employed on the cards,and crucially time.
If you are self employed it's your time to waste.
If you are on the cards you are pressured to do x jobs/ amount per day.
Society today is so structured around time, because it also impinges on ones own ability to carry out their own job/life.

1) Self Employed, Job turns into a bit of Sod takes you all day instead of half a day, you got a job next day which you can't cancel and were hoping to prep. You make as much progress as you can and say to the client it's safe its clean and you can't come back till Saturday (bang goes your weekend)

2) Employed, your given three jobs to finish today.
No1) no problems.
No 2) starts giving you grief and your working through just grab a sarnie and drink on the hoof.
No3)Your now late for the appointment and tired all you want to do is get it done and get home.
Guess which one is the crap job.

Always book morning appointments.

Time is I think what dictates the standard of finish in any job.

 

[WoodYouLike]

If you are self employed it's your time to waste.

And your clients, they don't have an unlimited number of days off either!

BTW, why is this topic moved from Trades talk to General chat?

 

[Infidel]

If you are self employed it's your time to waste.

And your clients, they don't have an unlimited number of days off either!

Society today is so structured around time, because it also impinges on ones own ability to carry out their own job/life.

I thought that may have covered it.

And Dunno

 

[WoodYouLike]

Don't really agree with "ones own ability to carry out" etc in regards of not having unlimited days off being a sign of modern times.

Self-employed or employed "traders" not always consider the impact their waste of their own time has on their client, that's what I'm trying to say.

 

[Nige F]

Just put No. 2 " on the Autistic Spectrum " - Simples

 

[Infidel]

Don't really agree with "ones own ability to carry out" etc in regards of not having unlimited days off being a sign of modern times.

Self-employed or employed "traders" not always consider the impact their waste of their own time has on their client, that's what I'm trying to say.

And my main post was about time, whether it be yours or your customer.
Both are valuable and in the end making a good or bad job comes down to just that.

 

[joinerjohn]

The last firm I worked for had a "Cab Shop" gaffer who only ever wanted things done "his way or not at all. "

Quick example:- I was on a job one day assembling and finishing some display units when he comes over and tells me I have to stop working on them and drop onto a job that was going out that afternoon. My job? to finish the cabinets off by screwing some metalwork to them.
The lads assembling these units were taking about half an hour to do each one. To put the metalwork on only took 10 minutes max.

I decided to put the metalwork on , then carry on with the job I had started for 20 mins till the next cabs were ready.
Was I right in thinking this???



Not according to the cab shop gaffer. He fully expected me to stand about for 20 mins till the next one was ready (or as he put it " Spend 20 mins checking you have done it properly.")
I asked him who the hell spends 20 minutes checking a job that takes ten minutes.
Best of it was,,,, I was actually senior to him ( a cause of some real arguments).
I ended up telling him to either grow up, get a life, or pick his dummy up off the floor and not throw it out of the pram again.

 

[conny]

Know what you mean John, I used to work on distribution boards for an electrical company. In our 'slack' times we used to make up sub-assemblies and store them away. When the next orders came through the job was half ready, just build the cabinets, put the subbies in, fit the main copperwork and then wire them up.
Line manager went ape when he found out what we were doing saying we should check our stocks of nuts, bolts, screws etc or brush up. Still didn't see our point when we said we cleaned up as we worked and all material bins were always well stocked. Got the message across when one of the pool leaders pointed out that profits on the latest model for the past 2½ years was over 250% higher than estimated due to what we were doing. He left us alone after that.
Didn't tell him our bonuses were bloody good too though!