Circular Saw Recommendation

[imroberts]

I'm looking for a new circular saw, ideally one which is guide rail compatible, though not an absolute must as it's only for DIY use.

On the guide rail front, I'm thinking I'll buy a guide rail anyway even if I buy a circular saw which isn't compatible. Probably something like the Evolution ST2800 from Screwfix for £70 - I'm fed up of bodging guides with bits of wood, spirit levels, etc. and I want a decent guide I can use with other tools such as my router which isn't compatible with guide rails anyway.

From experience and a brief look at various models in a store, I'm thinking a 185mm or 190mm model is an appropriate size for my needs. Are either of these two sizes more common than the other i.e. will they open me up to a wider variety of blades?

I'm a massive fan of Bosch Pro stuff, having several of their drills and other tools, however it would probably be the GKS 65 GCE if I went with Bosch - that along with a guide rail to cover 8ft brings me to about £400 which is more than I want to spend really - ideally I'd be looking closer to £200.

Which leads me to look at models such as the Bosch GKS 190 which can be picked up for around £100, or the Makita HS7611J which actually looks a better model and can be picked up for a similar price. Or alternatively I could just go with the evolution R185CCSX+ though I don't have much experience of them - that's also around £100 and is compatible with the rails as well.

Is there anything else you would consider? Am I going to get a decent saw and guide rail from a decent brand like Bosch or Makita for this kind of money or are the models I'm looking at about the best I'm going to get? If I'm looking in the right kind of ballpark for my budget, would you go with a guide rail compatible Evolution or go with a better circular saw and simply use the guide rails as a straight edge with integrated clamps?

Any other thoughts?

 

[catlad]

I have a bosch circular saw with the guide rail system and its great accurate and easy to use.

 

[chris1982]

I got an Erbauer plunge saw from SF and am quite happy with it. I think it was around 130 quid, and came with a rail.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Many purpose-designed rail-compatible saws are of the plunging cut variety (i.e. they plunge into the material at the start of the cut and lift out of the material at the end of the cut by spring action). Such saws generally have a 160 to 165mm blade and give a depth of cut of 50mm on the rail, although there are exceptions, but if you do go for a 184mm (7-1/4in) or 190mm blade your choice of saws will in the main non-plunge saws. BTW plunge saws are not ideal for use off the rail (they really require a two-handed grip and need to be kept pushed-down onto the material against the spring), but on the rail they can easily perform cut-outs like panel centre cut-outs (think sink or hob cut outs in a kitchen worktop or glazed panel in a door), so it's worth considering what your main type of work is. The fact that the blade automatically retracts into the casing when downwards pressure is removed is said to make them safer to use for beginners and tradesmen alike. One further point about plunge saws is that they work far better if you attach them to some form of vacuum cleaner - but that's true of a lot of other woodworking power tools.

As an aside, the Makita plunge saw (SP6000K) is available at just over £200 these days without guide rails (see Power Tool World, £209, here) whilst the Makita guide rails will cost about £50 each (1500mm) but to join them together you'll require a couple of rail/track joiners (circa £25 a pair if you cast about). That makes a full blown trade kit run at £334 - or a bit less than the £400 you quoted. Against that a MacAllister (in effect a rebadged Titan) plunge saw and rails is a lot cheaper at the moment (£55). Having used the Mak in anger on quite a few jobs (despite being a Festool wallah), and being an owner of the cordless version (the DSP600) I can attest to their robustness and accuracy. Sorry, but I can't comment on the Titan/MacAllister, but there are quite a few good reviews on the net as well as some videos by Peter Millard on YouTube (such as "Festool vs. Cheap Tool")

If you are going for a 184mm saw I'd point out that the majority of blades for them come with a 16mm bore (and that some Evo saws use non-standard arbor sizes) as this is an older American size, and that blade choice in the UK is somewhat restricted. Go to 190mm (a more recent European size) and the blade choice seems far wider with many more manufacturers offering blades. Personally, I'd recommend going for 190mm over 184mm if that's the choice

I think what you need depends on the work you envisage doing. If you intend to use mainly sheet material, cutting to make furniture, etc then I think a plunge saw should be a strong contender. If you envisage cutting-out floors. doing conventional carpentry work, demolition and remodelling, etc then a conventional rip saw would probably be a better choice. Each saw can do some things the other can't

 

[blup]

For a DIYER a circular saw and home built straight edge will cover most, if not all, of what you need to do. Trend and others sell purpose built guides.

The Makita corded track saw is available at a good price at the moment because the new cordless models are being promoted. It can also be used freehand. It also shares the rail with the conventional circular saw with adapter, if you decide to go for that.

Whichever you go for, measuring and marking the cut line remains the crucial part of the job, a fact that can be lost in the hype surrounding the manufacturers promotion of track saws.​

Blup

 

[imroberts]

Most of my work tends to be cutting sheet materials from end to end. I have had need for cutouts within a panel before when fitting a sink and hob however that'd definitely the exception.
I also used my previous circular saw quite extensively for cutting large timbers such as railway sleepers which simply won't fit in my mitre saw. Even with a 190mm blade I'd need to cut them from both sides however the additional size and power feels like it would be beneficial over a smaller saw?

I do have a mini circular saw, one of the Worx ones with an 84mm blade iirc which I use for small jobs however I must admit I find the spring loaded mechanism really hard to work with even compared with a much bigger and heavier saw. I don't know if I'd find the same with a plunge saw or are they ok when they're fitted to the rails? It certainly feels like it'd be much harder to use for cross cutting some sleepers for instance?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I also used my previous circular saw quite extensively for cutting large timbers such as railway sleepers which simply won't fit in my mitre saw. Even with a 190mm blade I'd need to cut them from both sides however the additional size and power feels like it would be beneficial over a smaller saw?

Really and truly if you are doing a lot larger scale work you need the biggest, most powerful saw you can buy - there is simply no substitute for power and size. Problem is that a really big saw isn't really ideal for lots of smaller cuts on sheet materials - the size and weight can make them tiring to use for any length of time and they are generally frustratingly difficult to control on smaller cuts (believe me - for heavy stuff I have an 1800 watt 85mm depth of cut monster and whilst it is invaluable for a lot of stuff I'm doing at the moment, 3in joists and cutting out thick nail infested flooring, the weight and size do tell against it much of the time).

I do have a mini circular saw, one of the Worx ones with an 84mm blade iirc which I use for small jobs however I must admit I find the spring loaded mechanism really hard to work with even compared with a much bigger and heavier saw. I don't know if I'd find the same with a plunge saw or are they ok when they're fitted to the rails? It certainly feels like it'd be much harder to use for cross cutting some sleepers for instance?

The 160/165mm plunge saws I've had the opportunity to use or own have all been pretty easy to plunge. Having tried the Makitas (corded and cordless) and Festool TS55/TS55R models I have to conclude that plunge saws with return springs are really best used on the rail - they aren't really the best of tools to use "freehand" off the rail. I've crosscut joists and beams with all manner of tools including plunge/rail saws and there's no reason why a standard plunge saw would be any worse than a conventional saw of equivalent power. I think the thing to understand is that the blade fitted must be appropriate for the task - so whilst a nice 48 tooth blade (on 160/165mm saws) will be great for carving-up MDF sheet, a more aggressive 24 tooth blade is going to be far more appropriate for crosscutting heavier timber whilst a 12 tooth rip tooth blade is going to give the fastest, easiest cuts when ripping, say, softwood (and you'd be surprised at how many "professional" woodworkers I come across who don't seem to get that)

 

[catlad]

Well Blub thats the thing you notice when you have a track is all that faffing about you do when you are using a made up straight edge is gone

 

[Diver Fred]

I have both; an old Skill saw (20+years old) and a track saw.
The Skill saw is low powered but works well cutting up to two and quarter inches depth. Adjustable depth of cut.
Recent purchase is the track saw. Didn't come with track clamps, now rectified courtesy of Axminster. Do think the clamps are essential as with the plunge feature I have little confidence that the track won't move whilst concentrating on pushing the saw down (plunging).
Have found that with a MFT top and dogs you don't need a cross cut saw for 90 & 45 degree cuts - look up Peter's Millard and Parfett on the web.

Track saws are excellent for cutting sheet material ( provided the sheet is well supported), use the longest track you can for big stuff and trimming doors to size. Been told that cutting out kitchen worktop with a TS is a sinch.

Reading your notes you may be best off with the biggest circular saw you can offer afford.

 

[blup]

Well Blub thats the thing you notice when you have a track is all that faffing about you do when you are using a made up straight edge is gone

I don't doubt a tracksaw is easier to line up to the marked cut line but does it ensure the line is square (or otherwise) to the board/sheet being cut, or that the line being cut is accurate in the first place?

A T square style edge also means the kerf of the blade is taken into account when lining up the saw against the edge.

Blup

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I don't doubt a tracksaw is easier to line up to the marked cut line but does it ensure the line is square (or otherwise) to the board/sheet being cut, or that the line being cut is accurate in the first place?

I agree with you that getting the cut line set-out accurately is a very necessary step and that the saw/rail won't make you more accurate, per se. But a factory-made guide rail is certainly straighter than a home-made one (and it won't warp or bend when it gets wet, either).

In general, and assuming that your original sheet material was cut dead square at the mill (it isn't always!), then measuring-in the same distance from each end and aligning the track to two "ticks" will give you a square cut. If you want a truly square cut with only one measure then there are attachments you can add to a Festool/Makita compatible track:

or you could just make your own:

These devices effectively turn a rail into a large T-square and are accurate enough to cut-up plywood for sub-flooring. I use the Insta from time to time and the squareness of the cuts is more than acceptable on plywood sub-flooring (full width cross cuts of 8 x 4ft sheets)

One big plus of these rail systems when cutting veneered or laminate sheets (providing that the appropriate blade is used, that it is sharp and that the anti-splinter strip in in good order) is that you get minimal chip-out/break-out, although with planning you can always work around those sorts of issues

 

[catlad]

Its not just easier its a revelation, that said I wouldn't buy a plunge saw because a normal track saw on a track has no problem dropping into material as long as you take it slow.

 

[blup]

Jobandknock - Thanks for the heads up on the Insta - a US import, price - gulp - 139 dollars plus delivery and import tax.

I think i'll stick to mdf straight edges cut at b and q!

Blup

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Thanks for the heads up on the Insta - a US import, price - gulp - 139 dollars plus delivery and import tax.

The Pallette is a much more "pallettable" £50 on eBay (when it can be found)..... The Insta can be had from FFX for £125. I know these prices seem high, but to someone who makes a living at it they can repay their original cost pretty quickly in saved time