Clearing overgrown land before turfing

[lms78]

Hi,

I took on a garden last year that is about 10m by 10m. It was badly overgrown with brambles (approx 8ft) and stinging nettles amongst other things.

I cut it all back in the summer, then put some SBK down (after letting the brambles grow back to a few inches) which didn't seem to work, so in the autumn I dug out as many of the brambles as possible getting the main bulb from which the roots seemed to grow, hoping that would be enough.

Over the winter I have tried to stay on top of the weeds, but this spring I have been surprised by how many brambles and weeds have started to come back (I don't have any gardening experience, hence my naivity). I have dug as much as I can out again.

If I dig down now, I still hit plenty of roots without going down far.

My aim is to eventually turf the land, but I assume I have much more work ahead of me before I can do that. I am happy to put in the work, but am worried that I am going to waste my time, so would really appreciate any advice on how to get the land into a state where I can turf.

I assume its worth digging out as many of the roots as possible, but how far down do I realistically need to go?

Should I consider putting some sort of chemical down? If so what and where do I get it? Do I need to allow stuff to grow back before applying it? If I do that, how long do I need to leave it before I turf? I am ready to get on with the work now, but if I had to leave turfing for another year to let a chemical work and then wear off, I am prepared to give it as long as I need to get it right.

I assume if I turf without properly dealing with the roots that are there, I will end up with weeds and brambles coming up through the turf?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[b3taman]

Ims78 - don't give up - I expect you're further down the road to getting this sorted than you realise..........
Firstly, not sure what happened with the SBK, but don't worry.
Simply go over the whole site now with Roundup (glyphosate). This is the perfect time of year to use Roundup as the weeds will be in full active growth. But make sure you apply when you can be pretty sure it won't be raining for 24 hours, after that it will be rain-resistant.
Nothing much will appear to happen for about 2 weeks, but be patient. You're not going to kill off the brambles with one hit, so apply again about the end of June, and then a third treatment late July if necessary.
Then you have to consider whether you want a super duper lawn or just some grass that is flat enough to push a rotary mower over. If it's going to be a lawn then you'll need to dig (only about half a spit deep), then level, rake and then lay turf around late Sept. Any annual weeds that germinate will be smothered by the turf, and you should have got rid of the perennials by then.
If its just going to be rough grass, then you could sow seed around the same time, or leave it until the Spring. The broadleaved weeds that appear will be knocked back by regular mowing, or you could use a selective feed and weed once the grass is established and actively growing. Hope this helps.

 

[lms78]

b3taman, thanks for the reply. I won't give up, I just want to avoid working all summer not getting anywhere.

Is the following product what you are referring to:

http://www.diy.com/rooms/roundup-co...90_BQ&ef_id=U1KC5gAAAD94Qx1N:20150504193639:s

If not, please could you point me to the exact product as there seem to be a number of variations, and as said, I'm very much a beginner!

Do I just leave the land between applications? I assume if I go digging stuff up during that time I'll effectively be removing the Roundup?

When it comes to laying the lawn, is the digging half a spit, I assume thats just to loosen the soil to allow flattening? I don't have to remove that?

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it!

 

[b3taman]

Yes, that's the stuff - there are various formulations and concentrations, just follow the label recommendations for dilution rates.
You could either buy a small cheap sprayer (a pump-up container with a lance) which won't cost a lot, or hire a knapsack sprayer for half a day from a hire shop. It's not going to break the bank either way.
Don't bother digging anything up or removing anything, this might make you feel you're doing something useful but won't achieve much.
The digging over is to loosen the ground and also make it easier to level. You certainly don't need to remove any soil.
Have fun.

 

[ellal]

If you go down the weedkiller route, may I suggest the concentrate that Wilco sells (Rootkill Weedkiller Super Concentrate).

Use it neat for stubborn roots or mix with water to produce the same concentrate as regular Roundup.

I've used both and they work equally well.

Not surprising since the chemical content list is the same.

But the Wilco one is much cheaper!

 

[lms78]

Thanks for the replies.

Final questions I promise...

I assume, based on instructions I have read, I need to let the weeds grow back a bit having dug them all out again? (based on it killing the individual weeds rather than treating the soil?)

Any reason, other than convenience, I can't just use watering can to apply? If its going to give more accurate coverage, I am happy to spend the necessary to do this right. If there is a sprayer you would recommend, please could you post a link (sorry to ask for such hand holding, I just want to ensure that I get this right).

ellal, thanks also for your response, is this the stuff you mean? www.wilko.com/invt/0223726

Thanks so much again for your responses.

 

[ellal]

This one:

http://www.wilko.com/weed-killers+w...ill-weedkiller-super-concentrate/invt/0409373

Ignore their website 'per litre' calculation.

Each 100ml sachet makes 1L, so its 12L for £10

It was 18 sachets for the same price last year, but still a good deal.

 

[b3taman]

Ims78 - You could use a watering can to apply but you'll be wasting most of the Roundup and risking scorching the leaves by pouring it on rather than a light mist. You're trying to get the plant to absorb as much of the diluted chemical as possible, so you want the leaf to continue actively growing - for a few days at least. If it's immediately scorched by phytotoxicity so that the leaf goes brown and dies within a couple of days of application due to overdose then the plant won't absorb anything. Maybe that's where you went wrong with the SBK.

What you'll save on wasted Roundup will go halfway towards a sprayer - a B&Q Garden Sprayer SX-CS5A is about £16 and will do the job perfectly well.

So, maybe you can understand now why you need to let the weeds get going again for a couple of weeks before you spray - you need actively growing plants with a good leaf area!
Hope this helps.

 

[lms78]

Thanks to you both! I am very grateful for you taking the time to help me.

I now have a plan, which is much more than I had a few days ago, and it also sounds like less work than I expected and relatively low cost too. Ideal.

Thanks again!

 

[r896neo]

Round-up is not effective at killing brambles. SBK is much better and you must have applied it incorrectly.

Trying to dig out the roots will be long and hard work. A large rotvator may be strong enough to tear the out and churn up the soil. The roots could then be raked out and the whole area levelled and wait for 3-4 weeks for re-growth.

Spray that and then proceed as you please

 

[blightymam]

I have an allotment and I can say that roundup, although good, still needs a little help! Things like thistles and ivy have waxier leaves, or the woodier weeds like brambles make it harder for the weedkiller to penetrate, I find breaking them up a bit can help the weedkiller get in there! I just tread on some of the weeds before pouring the stuff on.

It's also not that good with dandelions or bindweed, perhaps you may be needing more than one application to win in the end. Keep going tho, glyphosate killers do seem to be good.