Click-in blue plugs

[Jupiter01]

Hi,

I am fitting some LED downlights (Torches...yes, yes) and brought some blue click in plugs which make the cabling neater and safer. I have 6 lights in this particular room.

The first hole n the ceiling has 4 cables (feed in, feed out, switch and the link cable to the next light). All others have 2 cables except the last hole that has 1. Nothing unusual there I hope.

The plugs make sense for all the cables except the first hole where I have 4 cables. Rather than squeeze these into these plugs and improvise on the terminal blocks that are part of these plugs, do you guys tend to wire these initial 4 cables into a choc block or something similar and then take the single light cable and connect the live, neutral and earth into one of these plugs and continue thereon?

Thanks in advance.

 

[securespark]

(Torches...yes, yes)

The torch man has left the building.

A junction box would make sense. If it is accessible, screwed connections are fine. If it is not, an MF one it needs to be.

 

[SFK]

I would fit one of these as easy to use as especially designed for your 4 lighting cables and looks tidy when used:
J501 - HAGER ASHLEY DOWNLIGHTER JUNCTION BOX
From
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...nkw=J501+-+HAGER+ASHLEY+JUNCTION+BOX&_sacat=0
or here
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ501.html

 

[Jupiter01]

a 20amp junction box would suffice then?
I need one which will comfortably take 5 1.5mm cables...

 

[Taylortwocities]

Do not use a junction box. Those have no strain relief for the cables and are only suitable where the box is fixed (screwed to a joist) and the cables are clipped. That's nit what you need for downlights as that junction needs to be accessible.
Use the Ashley type per SFK's link.

 

[Jupiter01]

One of these on the basis that it has 4 cable entries and I would hope that I can squeeze another cable in and also the fact that it is 20amp?
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ804.html

 

[SFK]

Jupiter,
I realise that for some unknown reason the J501 has only 3 cable entries for the 4 cables that it is especially designed to take (feed in, feed out, switch and cable to first blue-block light connector). But I believe for your use the J501 is the correct one to use as it has all the correct connections for the switched live cable to go to the switch (which is missing in the J804). In basic terms the internals of the J501 has all the same connections as a Ceiling rose and so is more suitable than the J804 cable connector that you have shown.

But why do you have 5 cables?

This link shows how the J501 is wired with 4 cables (feed in, feed out, switch and cable to first blue-block light connector) (page 8 ):
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Hager/JB_Guide.pdf

and the "cable to the first blue-block light connector" then goes to the first of your 6 blue-block connectors (note that their image is completely wrong as the ground cables should go to central pin):
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLCT101C.html

sfk

 

[Jupiter01]

Thanks for all the help @SFK. That makes sense. Except..
I thought my blue block connectors were 20 amps which had me thinking that this junction box also needed to be 20 amp but perhaps 16 amp would suffice?

My bad on the 5 cables. I would need 4 connecting into this block and this includes the one that comes out of the block to feed to the light. This will go into the first blue block (only using L, N, E) along with the cable that links to the next downlight. The next downlight will then have this cable along with the one for the next light in its blue block and so on...

On page 8 why does the light cable not connect to the earth terminals?

 

[Taylortwocities]

I thought my blue block connectors were 20 amps which had me thinking that this junction box also needed to be 20 amp but perhaps 16 amp would suffice?

Your lighting circuit is (should be) fused at 10 Amps, or less. Why do you think you need 20A?

On page 8 why does the light cable not connect to the earth terminals

Maybe it is a class II fitting, perhaps?

 

[SFK]

Jupiter,
First off that I am only a DIYer, not an electrician and so I am ready to be strongly corrected from my mistakes.

Regarding the 20Amp connectors, this might be the case, but you will be using 1.5mm2 cable (or less) and this cable is rated at 14Amps (or less), and likewise the MCB (fuse) should be less than 10Amps (normally 6Amps) to protect the lighting circuit. So the 16Amp J501 connector will more than suffice (for a lighting circuit).

Regarding why on page 8 why does the light cable not connect to the earth terminals. Note that their other images have mistakes as mentioned befire, but I would presume (as a DIYer) that they have used 2 core cable to the light as it is the type of light with no earth connector. However I think (as a DIYer) the preference is to have 2 + earth cable and terminate the earth at the light as this earth along the cable gives extra protection.

Hope I got this all correct... :> sfk

 

[Jupiter01]

Thanks guys. i thought I may need the junction box to be 20 amp purely on the basis that I thought the blue blocks were 20 amps but I could be wrong. Will check tonight. In either case, 16 amp will suffice based on my current understanding. I have read that the ampage of these fittings can be higher but should never be lower than the requirements of the circuit. I appreciate that ideally, it should be the correct ampage. I should also confess that I am a DIY'er too

I have an earth at the light fitting so will wire in earth at both ends unless someone advises otherwise.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Hmm. If you buy 6A terminal boxes, the terminations will be quite small. You'd struggle getting more than a couple if conductors in the screw.
As long as the junction/cable/everything else has a current rating bigger than the protective device then it should be fine.
Bigger is better

 

[SFK]

Jupiter, presuming that you have a 6Amp (or sometimes 10Amp) lighting circuit then the 16Amp junction, and 20Amp Blue connectors will all be absolutely perfect and simple to use. Their Amp ratings do not need to match.
This is because they (and the cable) need to be greater than the limiting fuse/MCB so that the fuse/MCB trips before the wire and/or the connectors fail.

( Sorry Taylor - you got their first :> )
sfk

 

[securespark]

Page 8 is headed "downlighter junction box".

Presumably the downlighter is either SELV (like the one pictured on P7) or Class II.

In fact the set ups pictured on P7 & P8 are identical.

 

[SFK]

Securepark,
As you say, if the light is ClassII the images show that no Earth is needed in the flex cable.
But would it be 'best case' to use a flex cable with an earth and terminate the earth before the ClassII light, or would it be best case to use a flex cable with no earth?
I ask as I have done the first thinking it best to have an earth in the cable in case of say hitting it with a drill so that my RCD detects it.
thanks, SFK