Combi Boiler Pressure dropping - no visible leaks

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Hi guys,

First post so be gentle!

I have checked other related posts but they don't seem to describe my exact problem......

Just moved into rented house. Renting from a mate (at mate's rates) so not to keen to pressure him for too much help at this stage!

A new combi boiler was fitted about a year ago and he had the system flushed about two months before the old boiler packed-in!

I noticed when I moved in a few weeks ago that the boiler pressure needed topped up every few days or so (from about 1.25 to 1.5 bar) and my landlord confirmed that 1.5 bar is the desired pressure - there is no make/model details on the front of the boiler so I'll need to take the front cover off and investigate.

I noticed last Tuesday that there was a slow leak in the valve of the upstairs bedroom radiator after I turned the valve a little to close it (my living room is open-plan with the stairs and upstairs with no radiator in the hall upstairs) so I could concentrate a little more heat in the living room (not sure if this is a good idea or not?!).

Anyway, two other valve started leaking so I went to the local plumbing supplies store and bought new valves for all 6 radiators. I put TRV's on 4 of them (kitchen, Living Room and both bedrooms) and normal lockshield valves on the bathroom and hall (hall is a little porch between the front door and living room door) and that stopped the leaks. I re-filled the system and bled the radiators then filled the system again to 1.5 Bar.

Since the valves have been replaced the boiler pressure drops dramatically from 1.5 Bar to 0.5 Bar and (0.25 Bar this morning!) although the heating is still on and slightly warm.

The pressure only seems to drop (dramatically) when the heating goes off and the Hot Water is available always.

I have checked the drain valve (not sure if this is the PRV but it's what i used to drain the system before changing the valves) and it is not leaking.

It would appear that there isn't an invisible leak as the pressure tends to remain within 0.25 Bar (up and down) when the heating is on.

Also, the radiators with TRV's on them sometimes go off completely instead of being cooler but I assume that this is normal if the selected temperature on the TRV has been reached?

Finally, when I first filled the system back up the upstairs radiators were really warm but the downstairs radiators were cold (some of the flow pipes were warm though) and I had to shut off all of the upstairs radiators so that the downstairs ones could heat up! I am now trying to find a balance between upstairs and downstairs but it seems like there isn't enough hot water to go around the entire system!

Anyone have any suggestions? I live in Scotland and this is the wrong time of year for the heating to be playing up!
 
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Hi,

Thanks for the quick response.

Like I said, I'll need to have a look tonight to find the details as the manual was not left in the house!

Will post the details later tonight.

Thanks,

Brian
 
Hi,

Sorry, also forgot to mention that the filling loop for the boiler is permenantly in place which would suggest that whoever fitted the boiler knew there was a problem!

Is this bad?
 
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Brian
The PRV should run out from beneath the boiler out to an outside wall or tundish if inside.Check to see that this is not dripping/wet at the end.
I say should because sometimes these are not even connected and left to discharge inside the house!
Simple way of telling if it is the boiler or pipework.
If your boiler has isolating valves on the flow and return under the boiler,top up the pressure to around 1.5 bar,and close these valves.
Leave for a few hours if possible and see what happens.If pressure still drops then it is a boiler problem.If not it is a pipework/radvalve issue.
Rad valves only need a very very slight weep to affect the pressure.
Regards
Graham
 
It sounds as if the expansion vessel is failed or missing.

I am very suspicious of a boiler with no name!

I did see one last week though and think it was an older ferolli but nothing on the front at all.

It could be the wrong type or wrongly fitted!

Tony
 
It sounds like it is a cheap crappy boiler that was not installed too well either.
What is the pressure fully hot?
 
Hi Guys.

Boiler make is Halstead Ace High N.G.

I got home today at 6:50 and the heating had been on since 4:30 - the radiators had some heat in them (the house wasn't cold but not toasty either!) and the pressure was down to 0 Bar!

I've topped it up to 1 bar and it seems to be holding (the heating has been on since although it's on and off constantly). The pressure tends to hold whilst the heating remains on.

I found the PRV (I think!) it goes straight from the boiler in the kitchen to the outside wall and it's bone dry!

I have attached a picture of the pipes under my boiler - which ones are the isolating valves and how do I close these?
[/img]
 
Best thing to do is put the pressure up to 1.5 bar and switch heating on and leave on for an hour or so and go check it. If the pressure rises to 3 bar then the expansion vessel needs pressurised or has failed and needs replaced. To check this take the cap off the expansion vessel and push in the valve checking there is air in it. If it blows out clean air hard then its fine and re pressurise it. If it blows out any water then its burst and needs replaced. If the vessel is OK with air then its probably the heat exchanger has a pin hole in it causing the pressure to rise and escape via the PRV leaving you with not enough pressure when heating is switched off and the system settles again. Also do all this with the boiler switched off dont want you getting a shock.

If the boiler pressure doesnt rise when left on for an hour or so then check all the rad valves and inside the boiler itself to make sure no visable leaks. If you find any this will be cause and if you do not then the leak could be under the flooring. If your one up in a flat or higher then your neighbour underneath will be soon enough to tell you that the cieling is damp in their flat!

It can only be a leak, the vessel or the heat exchanger causing this.

Oh or a leaky PRV but you will notice that easily if dripping constantly.

Kev
 
Image now showing (hopefully!).

B16kvv - I'm not sure where these are and what they look like? There are no leaks in the valves and there is no leak from the PRV or any pipework at the Boiler (unless the water is sitting inside the boiler).

I'm in a house and there's no signs of a leak in the ceiling so I suppose it could be a leak on the ground floor but I'd like to rule anything else out first!

The pressure drop has intensified since I changed the valves and I'm worried that, where the water was leaking slightly at the valves before, sealed valves have now pushed it out of an underfloor joint now!!! :cry:
 
If the PRV is bone dry then it looks like u have a leak under the floor!

If its going down as much as you say then a leak sealer wont fix it! Best to start by lifting the floor in the hall as this is generally where most of the joints r located then just work your way from there trying to trace the leak.

Kev
 
Try "www.hgdheating.co.uk" look for "after sales" then"literature".
You will finf manual for ace high
 

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