Thanks for that R.F.Lighting , I normally inhabit the plumbing & C.Heating forum , & having reviewed a number of posts over here, I must admit it seems a more, how shall I put it , civilised forum !! Incidentally I took one of those limited scope pt P courses awhile back , designed for plumbers / c h engineers who go poking about in elecrics , there were 5 of us , all with our brand new testing equipment , that no one new how to use ! we spent 4 days all trying to work out what the teacher chap was talking about we never had a clue , big Z's little z's e.c.t , we all got our tickets , with step by step coaching ! a disgrace really , but there you go , Merry Christmas to you & thanks again !!