Connecting spots from mains via dimmer.

[Northbeach]

Meant to post this a while back (promised a poster on here back in my 'measuring existing spotlight holes when new plasterboard ceiling goes up' - forget the posters name though....).

Have asked numerous people this (some qualified others not) and receive different methods of madness

Right...I have built a bookcase in an enclove/alcove (?) of my living room. The top piece of wood (the ceiling of the bookcase if you will) juts out and on this lip I have installed low voltage halogen spotlights to shed a little light on said bookcase. I have been advised to take a feed from a mains socket (can't take a source from an existing light switch as there is no 'switchable live'/ the live is permanent - sound right?).

The mains socket happens to be at head height in the kitchen (for some unknown reason). Seperating this socket and the bookcase (in the adjacent room) is a wall and cavity (the case was built onto a wooden frame directly onto the wall leaving the obvious gaps - this is used to hide the cables). Into the bookcase I have added a dimmer switch (facing the back of the mains socket on the other side of the wall (fortunately next to a door frame so quite easy to view and access).

I intended to (and was advised, though in different manners hence my confusion) to:

* connect the mains socket to a spur box (hidden on top of the 'lip' of the bookcase which will then be boxed in).
* connect the live and neutral from the transformer of the lights to the live and neutral from the mains socket via the spur.
* feed on from the connect spur onto the dimmer switch below.
* earth's connected accordingly.

Hey presto....nothing worked! Have changed bulbs to no avail.
I can only think that I'm not connecting correctly in the spur (the mains socket is a working socket).

There is another fly in the ointment in that the mains socket currently houses 3 thick red wires and 3 thick black wires (not sure about the earth - one perhaps). It is quite difficult to push these back in place and close the socket up - adding a couple more wires isn't going to help .
I may set about fitting another mains socket anyhow - the current one sits on the wall - I would knock back the brick behind and insert a flush one - this may free up space?

Of course, I can post pics if the above isn't making much sense?
Foxing me and a couple of others is this one folks!

Many thanks.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Pictures aren't going to help - what would help would be a drawing of how you've wired it up, as I can't make head nor tail of this:

* connect the live and neutral from the transformer of the lights to the live and neutral from the mains socket via the spur.
* feed on from the connect spur onto the dimmer switch below.

Also, a couple of points:

1) If your socket circuit is a ring, you must ensure that this socket is on the ring, and not a spur

2) When connecting lighting to a socket circuit you should fuse down using an FCU. Which you may have done, if that's what you mean by "spur box", in which case you'll regret boxing it in if the fuse ever blows...

 

[Northbeach]

1) If your socket circuit is a ring, you must ensure that this socket is on the ring, and not a spur.

I probably didn't mean to use the word 'Spur' Sheds - I was thinking more of a 'Junction Box' (as mentioned before the existing socket has 3 reds and 3 blacks plus the earths cables inside it).

2) When connecting lighting to a socket circuit you should fuse down using an FCU. Which you may have done, if that's what you mean by "spur box", in which case you'll regret boxing it in if the fuse ever blows...

I planned on using a fuse box though one or two people advised me that I wouldn't really need one. A friend of mine who is an electrician (but lives a long way away from me - therefore difficult for him to pop his head round!) also suggested using a fuse box. I envisaged placing this next to the existing socket (on the other side of the wall - a hole has already been drilled through for cabling).

So I now have :
*existing socket on ring
*connected to fuse box (can this be reffered to as fuse for spur?)
*junction box
*live and neutral from lights I intend to use (on transformer)
*dimmer switch.

...just need to connect them all together.
I'll set to work on a diagram if that would help.

Cheers.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1) If your socket circuit is a ring, you must ensure that this socket is on the ring, and not a spur.

I probably didn't mean to use the word 'Spur' Sheds - I was thinking more of a 'Junction Box' (as mentioned before the existing socket has 3 reds and 3 blacks plus the earths cables inside it).

There should normally only be two of each. If there are 3, then this socket is already supplying a spur, but you do need to ensure that it isn't itself a spur, and the other cables are in fact seriously non-compliant further spurs.

I planned on using a fuse box though one or two people advised me that I wouldn't really need one.

Don't listen to them.

And don't call it a "fuse box", as that just gets confusing - a fuse box is the name for the old style fused consumer units - what you should have is a fused connection unit (FCU), aka fused spur.

I'll set to work on a diagram if that would help.

It would...

 

[Northbeach]

Cheers Sheds.
Just looking for the right program to 'draw' a diagram (having recently rebuilt my PC many of my programs are awaiting installation).

If there are 3, then this socket is already supplying a spur, but you do need to ensure that it isn't itself a spur, and the other cables are in fact seriously non-compliant further spurs.

Worried me a little there Sheds - this socket was on the wall before we bought the house 7 years ago - since then we have had a new kitchen fitted and this plug was remained where it was (as mentioned before, bizarrely at head height). I'll take a snap of this and show you the mess! It's not actually in use at the moment anyhow (have taped it up for the time being).
Cheers.