consents needed for floored loft

[montysma]

I am part way through buying a property with a large floored lined loft room, not advertised as a proper room, simply a floored loft. It is accessed via a steep alternate tread ladder/stair case type thing.

There are no certificates for any of this. The sellers lawyer states that there are no structural alteration hence no certifs needed. However, the surveyor who did the home report says that the joists must have been cut top increase the size of the loft hatch, so it is structural.

If i go ahead then i become responsible for this. It is hard to find out though what would make it comply and I cant seem to get any idea of specs needed from north ayrshire council. Would the loft hatch need to be returned to the smaller size, and the staircase removed?or can it be left if the joists are rendered strong enough? also according to my web searches alternate tread stair cases fullfill planning regs in small spaces but again I cant seem to get info from the council.

How on earth do you manage to do alterations correctly if you cant get details in advance of the work.

The sellers are unlikely to seek consents as it doesnt comly and there would be a cost implication and its an executry who are selling. I would go ahead ,hopwever, I do need this attic room and but cant seem to get a handle on what I would need to do to put it right if i did go ahead and purchase.

 

[JohnD]

If you "need" an attic room, this house hasn't got one so it doesn't meet your requirements. It has got a floored loft, which you can use to store your Christmas decorations in. Nothing more.

If you want a habitable room up there, you will have to pay for a full loft conversion. It will cost a bit more than usual due to having to rip out that sub-standard floored loft first so it can be done properly. It is usually better value to just buy a bigger house.

 

[montysma]

Unfortunately a full loft conversion is probabably not possible due to restricted headroom. It is a non standard construction cottage on a scottish island. wood frame with render , a type of construction common in the area. It is being marketed as a single stry with floored loft, but presented with single beds in the loft area. The selling solisitor/estate agent claims consemnts not needed as I explained already, its only part way through the process that this has come to light.

 

[JohnD]

the only reason it doesn't need consents is that it is a loft, not a room. Does the price reflect the fact that it has no upstairs room?

 

[montysma]

oh yes, like I said it is worded as a loft room, but shown in schedules and and viewings as a bedroom. However, as it stands it wouldnt seem to comply with anything, either a loft or a room as joists have been cut for the hatch and a permanent alternate tread stair fitted. Even as a loft with a floor, I am told it would need certificates for the altered hatch at the very least, even with the stair case removed. My problem is that suveyors are saying one thing, 2 different lawyers are saying different things, and the council different things depending on who is on the phone. I am none of these things, just a member of the public trying to buy a house and getting comflicting information from the professionals involved. I think the easiest thing is to walk away from it.

 

[JohnD]

I think the easiest thing is to walk away from it.

agreed

unless it was so cheap that you were willing to take on the risk and cost of sorting it out.

 

[montysma]

Itspriced in the same range as other similair properties. I would buy it and put it right if I could find out from planning what is needed to make it comply. However, with vendors solisitor insisting that it is fine and complies as is, and so not prepared to make applications. The council giving me conflicting info , having not seen it anyway, then I have no way of knowing what I am taking on.

 

[Robert9999]

My son has recently bought a house that is in a very similar condition. The loft has "unofficially" been converted to a room with a fixed staircase. He was not conned by the sellers who did not claim that it was an extra room but only for storage. The price was no more than if it had been an ordinary loft. He will not use the room as he is single and has plenty of space with a two-bedroomed house.

He has been advised that before selling (probably years away) it would be best to remove the fixed staircase and replace the original loft hatch so that there is then no worry about building regulations. It is probably impossible to bring it up to habitable room condition or if it can be done it would be prohibitively expensive.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

A loft conversion can only be deemed as a habitable room once Building Regulations have been complied with a Certificate issued. If it ain't got a certificate it is not a habitable room. Simples! Once you add a permanent means of access such as a stair or spacesaver stair as this one has it becomes an illegal loft conversion irrespective of whether the owner considers it to be one or not. The estate agent is breaking the law if they know it does not comply with Building Regs and they market it as a bedroom. The sellers solicitor is bullsh**ing you. To make it a legal conversion (Regularisation) you need to prove to Building Control that it complies with the regulations that were in force at the time of the conversion eg the roof very likely had structural members removed and other strengthening carried out, you would need to prove this was adequately carried out. You would have to expose parts of the structure/insulation etc to prove what was in there and anything that was below standard would need attention. The same goes for the floor which was once a ceiling, the insulation in the roof as well as numerous other items, fire doors throughout the rest of the house, smoke alarms, ventilation, fire protection etc etc.

That said there are thousands of houses with 'illegal' conversions that were carried out years ago that people don't care about. If the conversion was carried out 5 years ago then you may have reason to be concerned. If it was carried out 20 years ago then I wouldn't worry about it.

How old is the house, when was the conversion carried out, you vaguely mentioned the price did you mean it was priced as if this were an additional bedroom or was it priced as if it had storage in the loft?

 

[montysma]

It is valued and priced as a one bedroom property, having spoken to the surveyor who did they home report, this is how he valued it. It has a single ground floor bedroom. As I said it is wooden framed/render structure, single story, part of a row of the same type, which are known on the Island as "back cottages". These have been there many years.

This one however, although similair in appearance to the others, was actually rebuilt as a result of fire about 10years ago. Many of the other s do have ist floor loft conversions complete with dormer windows. This modern one though, whilst seemingly identical, must have a different roof pitch or something so that it would never have head clearance to have a legal loft conversion.

The council only has certificates for the property following the re build, with no stairway or anything. It was owned by a man who bought it around 4 years ago (and has since died), who upgraded it with new kitchen etc, added a conservatory (also with no plans) and the floored loft room. It was certainly being used as a bedroom. So unfortunately it would seem that these changes were made within the last 4 years.

My worry is not the price its being sold at, rather it being unsaleable at a later date without substantial remedial work on my part, or indeed that what has been done might have rendered things unsafe.

 

[mointainwalker]

If you want to sell with a clear conscience and no legal comebacks, surely all you have to do is remove the staircase and put in a loft-ladder ( and maybe demolish the conservatory ).

This is not likely to be much work and in the meantime you can enjoy these added amenities as you wish.