Consumer unit change

[bobsmate]

I'e recently changed a consumer unit at the requet of a customer. Before doing it i did a insulation resistance test on the circuits and found them to be within the regs. However after i have changed the board i then did a full pir and found the circuits to be in a poor condition i.e. light switches switching sockets, lots of spurs, lots of junction boxes and on some a high zs etc. Is there now any way i can condem the elctrics and tell the customer a full re-wire is recommended or should i go ahead and part p register the job as according to the niceic "Best Practice Guide" "There is no legal requirement, and no regulation in BS 7671, requiring an existing electrical installation to be upgraded to current standards."
"However, there is a requirement under the Building Regulations for England and Wales not to leave an installation less safe than it was prior to modification work."

I know i should've doen a full pir before but after seeing that the insulation resistance was ok i wanted to save the customer money and thought it would be ok. Stupid mistake i know.

 

[securespark]

Oh dear.

Have you charged the customer for this work?

Have you notified it?

I think you are on extremely dodgy ground.

Never mind the IR, what about RFC and all the other tests?

You should NEVER energise a circuit without making sure it is safe.

Is it possible to reinstate the old CU?

 

[bobsmate]

Oh dear.

Have you charged the customer for this work?

Have you notified it?

I think you are on extremely dodgy ground.

Never mind the IR, what about RFC and all the other tests?

You should NEVER energise a circuit without making sure it is safe.

Is it possible to reinstate the old CU?

No

No

What do u mean by me being on extremly dodgy ground?

All other tests seem to be alright with just a few with a high ZS everything is also on Rcbo's and they are all working correctly.

Its not that its not safe as most of the test results have come out fine, i'm just worried that if i go ahead and register this job once the zs values have been lowered could i get in trouble if something were to happen (i'm not saying something will just what if) providing i have a set on good test results.

No i can't replace the old board as it was a rewireable board and that would then make the installation less safe.

 

[securespark]

It is unsafe if, for example, you have no RF continuity & the circuit is on a 32A breaker...

How high are the Zs's?

 

[bobsmate]

If by RFC you mean ring continuity then yes every circuit is correctly fused there isn't two radials on a 32 amp or anything like that.

Also the Zs's aren't that much higher than what they should be.

I've just been told by a friend that i should just tell the customert get it re-wired and that putting my name to it would be a bad idea because of the joint boxes and spurs etc. but surely once i can get the ZS's down within the regulations (either by re-wiring the circuit or looking for a fault) and all the results are within regs then there should be no problem in me registering it.

 

[Chri5]

If you don't register the job, the client could take legal action or phone your scheme provider / and or the LABC.

You have given a contract for a fee to replace a CU and unfortunately I would see that as requiring compliance with the 17th and the testing standards therein.

You are the pro and as such you accepted liability the moment you started the work. If I was your customer I would make you rework the job until the test figures match or are inside the requirements of the schedules set by 17th Ed.

A hard lesson, but then you KNOW you should have done more investigative work at point of survey.

If you have some soft patter skills then I'd suggest that you seek to offer the client a solution based on 50:50 costs, pushing the benefit of remedial works required being an further asset to the property.

 

[bobsmate]

If you don't register the job, the client could take legal action or phone your scheme provider / and or the LABC.

You have given a contract for a fee to replace a CU and unfortunately I would see that as requiring compliance with the 17th and the testing standards therein.

You are the pro and as such you accepted liability the moment you started the work. If I was your customer I would make you rework the job until the test figures match or are inside the requirements of the schedules set by 17th Ed.

A hard lesson, but then you KNOW you should have done more investigative work at point of survey.

If you have some soft patter skills then I'd suggest that you seek to offer the client a solution based on 50:50 costs, pushing the benefit of remedial works required being an further asset to the property.

That is what i wanted to do originally but after what my mate said i started to panic a bit. So as long as the test results are within the regulations and everything is fused correctly then i am fine to register it?

Also what if a fault were to occur in a few years would i then be liable even though my 'new' results will be within regulations?

 

[bernardgreen]

Has anything that results from the fitting of that modern consumer unit made anything LESS safe in the building than it was before ?

If the answer to that is no, nothing is less safe then common sense says the over all situation is no different from before.

If the answer is that the overall system is even slightly less prone to accident, failure or damage then the overall situation while not necessarily being in compliance with the latest regulations has been improved.

That said changing a Consumer Unit should be done in compliance with the regulations where ever practical. It should NEVER be done if it makes the overall situation less safe.

 

[securespark]

So as long as the test results are within the regulations and everything is fused correctly then i am fine to register it?

Arguably they are not, as the Zs's are not low enough.

Some will argue <1667 Ohms is within the regs, but if I were an inspector and saw this, I'd want to know why!!

If the Zs is high, it could point to the Ze being high: what is it? And what supply is it?

Resistances of live/cpc - are they OK?

 

[bobsmate]

So as long as the test results are within the regulations and everything is fused correctly then i am fine to register it?

Arguably they are not, as the Zs's are not low enough.

Some will argue <1667 Ohms is within the regs, but if I were an inspector and saw this, I'd want to know why!!

If the Zs is high, it could point to the Ze being high: what is it? And what supply is it?

Resistances of live/cpc - are they OK?

They may not be now but once i get the Zs lowered, as mentioned in a previous post, then they will be. The Ze was 0.24 if i remember correctly and is a TNS supply.

 

[bobsmate]

Has anything that results from the fitting of that modern consumer unit made anything LESS safe in the building than it was before ?

If the answer to that is no, nothing is less safe then common sense says the over all situation is no different from before.

If the answer is that the overall system is even slightly less prone to accident, failure or damage then the overall situation while not necessarily being in compliance with the latest regulations has been improved.

That said changing a Consumer Unit should be done in compliance with the regulations where ever practical. It should NEVER be done if it makes the overall situation less safe.

No the change of consumer unit has made it more safe as before it was a re-wireable and now everything is individually protected by an rcbo.

 

[Adam_151]

Some will argue <1667 Ohms is within the regs, but if I were an inspector and saw this, I'd want to know why!!

I've had to do that before!

Because all the RCBOs we seem to get for Wylex TP boards are C type for some reason!, Don't get me wrong, I don't like it and thing its a bit of a poor design, but it does comply with the regs

 

[Taylortwocities]

So as long as the test results are within the regulations and everything is fused correctly then i am fine to register it?

Mate, I think you are getting confused with the process.

When you carry out electrical work you have tested the work that you have done to check that it complies with BS7671. The results of these tests you will use to complete an Electrical Installation Certificate.

NOTIFYING the work advises the body that you are registered with (NICEIC?) that the work you have done complies with Building Regulations (Part P, etc). Part P has references to BS7671 and absolutely commands that the work is done in a safe manner.

So, two processes.

As an aside, re this job, do I understand that you have provided a board with a separate RCBO on each circuit? Do you have a picture?

 

[bobsmate]

That is correct yes, every circuit is protected by an rcbo and no sorry i don't have any pictures.

 

[securespark]

Because all the RCBOs we seem to get for Wylex TP boards are C type for some reason

Wylex do B types. We have stocks of them, but you should be able to get them.

The codes are:

NSBS6-B/1 - 6A RCBO

NSBS10-B/1 - 10A RCBO

ETC...