Cooker switch location
- Thread starter kazzab
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The regulations are split into many Parts and some are law and some are only recommendations. Although electricians who are scheme members have to follow the BS7671 even if not law.
Only reference in BS7671:2008 to 2 meters is swimming pools. For 300 mm minimum hight for sockets for caravans but nothing as to isolator position. May be it's in Part P or in one of the Guide Books but not in main regulations.
I remember it was in earlier versions and I have not got the last version to come out. One problem is items are removed and it is very easy to assume still in the book. Like earthing requirements for metal window frames.
I have a feeling there is something in fire regulations about position you must be able to use the switch to isolated in the event of a chip pan fire for example and to have behind the cooker you would not be able to reach it.
But not a DIY job anyway and those would can self certify will have to do as their scheme provider says even if only in a guide book. Although the LABC could give permission the cost is prohibitive.
To me want it between cooker and exit so if a fire you can switch off on the way out. In my mothers house within 2 meters would mean she could not reach in in her wheel chair so would be rather silly.
Only reference in BS7671:2008 to 2 meters is swimming pools. For 300 mm minimum hight for sockets for caravans but nothing as to isolator position. May be it's in Part P or in one of the Guide Books but not in main regulations.
I remember it was in earlier versions and I have not got the last version to come out. One problem is items are removed and it is very easy to assume still in the book. Like earthing requirements for metal window frames.
I have a feeling there is something in fire regulations about position you must be able to use the switch to isolated in the event of a chip pan fire for example and to have behind the cooker you would not be able to reach it.
But not a DIY job anyway and those would can self certify will have to do as their scheme provider says even if only in a guide book. Although the LABC could give permission the cost is prohibitive.
To me want it between cooker and exit so if a fire you can switch off on the way out. In my mothers house within 2 meters would mean she could not reach in in her wheel chair so would be rather silly.
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There has been much debate about this here in the past. I am with RF on this one. I would put it within 2m of the cooker or hob. If there is more than one appliance, you can have one switch controlling both, provided the switch is no more than 2 metres from either appliance. And it must be readily accesible.
However, this advice follows more closely the 15th Edition than the current edition.
Although, the OSG and Building Regs Guide to advise the above...
I'm still not sure what the 17th actually says on this.
If you look at the 16th regulation below, it does not mention the 2m rule, but it does say "must be placed so as not to put the operator in danger".
You have to make your own mind up about that!
Rob: would you mind digging out your BGB and copying the equivalent 17th Ed. regulation here?
Following is what I wrote on a previous topic:
However, this advice follows more closely the 15th Edition than the current edition.
Although, the OSG and Building Regs Guide to advise the above...
I'm still not sure what the 17th actually says on this.
If you look at the 16th regulation below, it does not mention the 2m rule, but it does say "must be placed so as not to put the operator in danger".
You have to make your own mind up about that!
Rob: would you mind digging out your BGB and copying the equivalent 17th Ed. regulation here?
Following is what I wrote on a previous topic:
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Thank you for the history. It is interesting. I tried using words out of the reference like "appliance" and "danger" to find it in the 17th Edition. I have listed all I could find which would seem in some way to be related to a cooker.
I could not find anything like the references you give. I do see a problem with different types of cooker where some have loads of built in safety devices they may not require the same sort of protection as the more dangerous types. My hob will auto reduce heat if it reaches a certain temperature and if the temperature still rises it will switch off. It auto switches off after a set time. All controls are at the front the largest danger where an isolator may be required is a fire in the oven. The oven is the only place where there are red hot parts.
The far more dangerous gas cookers do not seem to have isolators placed to remove the gas supply in case of fire so why should electric cookers have more safety devices than a cooker with open flames? The spigot connection for the gas cooker is often where it can't be reached without moving the cooker and often one has to go outside to turn off the main gas valve.
Although there seems little in the BS7671:2008 there may be building regulations or fire regulations however I could not find them.
I could not find anything like the references you give. I do see a problem with different types of cooker where some have loads of built in safety devices they may not require the same sort of protection as the more dangerous types. My hob will auto reduce heat if it reaches a certain temperature and if the temperature still rises it will switch off. It auto switches off after a set time. All controls are at the front the largest danger where an isolator may be required is a fire in the oven. The oven is the only place where there are red hot parts.
The far more dangerous gas cookers do not seem to have isolators placed to remove the gas supply in case of fire so why should electric cookers have more safety devices than a cooker with open flames? The spigot connection for the gas cooker is often where it can't be reached without moving the cooker and often one has to go outside to turn off the main gas valve.
Although there seems little in the BS7671:2008 there may be building regulations or fire regulations however I could not find them.
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What's the 17th's equivalent of 476-03-04?
In the event of a fire the OFF switch should be easy to use and on the exit route from the cooker.
It's within the 2 meters quoted but hoped to site it on the wall at the back of the cupboard with a cut out in back panel for access
NO that is not accessible in an emergency. If the cooker is over heating and out of control you do not want to be emptying a cupboard to get to the switch. When the inside of the oven is glowing red ( stuck thermostat ) you need to get the switch quickly.
And if you have a guest chef they will not know where it is if hidden in a cupboard
Remember the "old rule" where if you had one hand in the sink full of water, you shouldn't be able to plug an appliance into a socket outlet with the other wet hand? And that is now recommended as 300mm from sink/drainer edge (and that's probably changed again since yesterday). Personally I prefer the old rule of thumb but that would mean most new build houses would have to have socket less kitchens.
As to the OP's question. With one hand on the oven, see how far you can reach sideways (not above). That's the limit of where the isolation switch should be. The kitchen is a functional room and should remain so. And if SWMBO is reading this, that means I'm not allowed in there apart from grabbing the dogs lead. I have no other useful functions in a kitchen!!
As to the OP's question. With one hand on the oven, see how far you can reach sideways (not above). That's the limit of where the isolation switch should be. The kitchen is a functional room and should remain so. And if SWMBO is reading this, that means I'm not allowed in there apart from grabbing the dogs lead. I have no other useful functions in a kitchen!!
Interesting points in that there are virtually no safety devices on the gas supply.
Individual appliances such as boilers may have them but not the actual installation.
I presume that is why most people do not dream of working on the gas system but nearly everyone (it seems) thinks they can do whatever they choose on the electrics with no knowledge at all.
Not to mention the numerous tools required as opposed to just a screwdriver and pair of scissors.
This is probably because anything they do wrong will merely result in a device disconnecting the supply 'instantly' but a gas leak will just leak for ever until...
Perhaps MCBs/RCDs should be modified so that they do not disconnect when a fault is detected, when an incompetent does something stupid, but make a funny smell so that said incompetent has to run outside and turn a tap hopefully before the wiring melts and/or the house catches fire.
Maybe not p.c. or h.&s. enough.
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Wonder how old that one is? AFAICT, it's not in the 14th...
Although, does anyone remember "arm's reach" from the 15th?
Stand in a bath and you shouldn't be able to touch the light fitting....?
Home Office skirts and all that..... eeeh, it takes me back, it does!
At the time (late 80's) I was told 'its in the regs'. Now, with me rewiring my typical 40's/50's semi just up from Longbridge in Brum. Technically, we couldn't have a socket in the kitchen! But it did stop me putting sockets in the bay window that contained the sink.Wonder how old that one is? AFAICT, it's not in the 14th...
At the time(?) it seemed logical, if not practical.
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I think some of this stuff was either from much older editions, which I am doubting because the regs didn't worry too much about sockets and water pre-14th. My Mum's 40's bungalow had one in the bathroom. Kosher!
I think some of it was interpreted to be on the safe side.
It's almost like the "arm's reach" rule, isn't it? But that wouldn't apply in the kitchen, as there is not the same level of vulnerability in there.
Well, I don't usually cook while naked and dripping wet....
I think some of it was interpreted to be on the safe side.
It's almost like the "arm's reach" rule, isn't it? But that wouldn't apply in the kitchen, as there is not the same level of vulnerability in there.
Well, I don't usually cook while naked and dripping wet....
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