Correct order of application for central heating treatments

[gac1]

Hi, I live in a house with an old Glow-worm Galaxie 240/6 backboiler. It works fine, the programming system is over-simplistic but it's workable until I can change to a newer system. However, the boiler is starting to get a bit noisy when either the hot water or hot water+central heating are on. I think I've figured out what treatments I may use to try and help, but I just want to know about the correct way to apply them. I'm thinking:

1) Drain and refill with Sentinel X400 System Restorer - will remove metal deposits from the radiators and pipework, I'll leave it in for the maximum of 4 weeks as it's an old system, and then flush and refill with clean water

2) A week later, drain again and refill with Sentinel X200 Noise Reducer - I believe this will concentrate on limescale within the boiler itself rather than the metal deposits in the radiators, so needs this second step? Again, leave in for a few weeks and then flush and refill with clean water

3) After another week, drain again and refill with Fermox MB-1 protector (would use Sentinel, but I know where there's an unopened bottle of MB-1 so would rather use this to save a few quid). This would then stay within the system to add protection and hopefully prevent the buildup of both metal deposits and limescale throughout the system.

Does that sound sensible? I know normally the X200 would be left in, but I would rather not mix chemicals, particularly from two different manufacturers, the results may be unknown and undesirable. But I think if I drain the X200 and fill with MB-1, that'll do the job of long-term protection anyway? The long-term aim is to replace the boiler with a combi, but that means quite a lot of disruption and expense, so I'd rather spend a relatively small amount of money trying to improve the boiler I have until I'm better prepared to upgrade. As far as I know there's nothing wrong with the boiler other than it's shortly due for a service so I'll try and tie everything in together.

Cheers!

 

[Mark Br]

Leave the x200 in

 

[gac1]

It's safe to mix alongside a "whole system" protector then?

 

[JohnD]

X200 is not supposed to be drained out. It is safe to mix with X100 which will only cost yopu about £15.

If you can afford an extra £100 or so, fit a Magnaclean or Spirovent or similar before you add the X400

the magnaclean collects a spectacular amount of black sludge due to its powerful magnet, however build quality is not too good and they tend to leak.

 

[gac1]

I know under normal circumstances it should stay in to protect the boiler from limescale, but what about if I want to add a different protector for the whole system (i.e. MB-1)? Or are you saying that I don't need the extra protector and X200 on its own will be fine?

I'll bear that in mind about the cleaning device, the only thing that worries me about that is the installation. All the boiler return pipework is boxed in behind a false wall, there is a hole to access it but I don't think it would be big enough to get tools etc in to install one of those devices and if they're prone to leaking I'd want it accessible so I can see as soon as it starts and do something about it. I'm not sure of the path all the pipework takes throughout the house so I don't know offhand where else might be suitable. I could certainly get an engineer to have a look and see where the best place is for it though. I can afford an extra £100 if it's for something that will definitely benefit the system, if not then I'd rather keep it aside towards the cost of a replacement.

edit - didn't see your extra comment about it being safe to mix with other Sentinel products. I'll try and pick up some X400 for the flush, and X200/X100 for long-term protection then, and see how that goes.

 

[commercialman]

Go buy some washing up liquid , boiler noise will soon stop , forget the rest.

 

[JohnD]

the filter device has not got to go next to the boiler, but it should go on a return pipe to the boiler, preferably a 22mm one from the radiators

 

[Charnwood]

Magnaclean....................build quality is not too good and they tend to leak.

I've sold dozens over the past few years and not one has come back. Yet.

There's also the Fernox TF1.

 

[gac1]

Thanks for the advice all, I'll look into all these things. I think I'll do the flushes myself for now as these are easily DIYable, but I'll need to get some professional advice on the best place to put a filter, so I'll ask about that shortly when I have the boiler serviced. Excuse my ignorance, but I assume that putting inhibitors into the smaller expansion tank in the loft for the central heating won't affect the hot water supply in any way? I don't know how this system works, I assume it's a standard open-vented system (two different sized tanks in the loft, and a hot water cylinder in one of the upstairs bedroom). The last thing I want is to be sticking chemicals into the hot water, obviously...

 

[JohnD]

I've sold dozens over the past few years and not one has come back. Yet.

mine leaked round the cap, which I have cured by lubricating the thread with silicone grease. The valves also leak round the spindle but if you don't use them to often they reseal with limescale.

I haven't returned it and it is out of warranty but that doesn't mean it doesn't leak.

In my main home I have an old model Spirovent and the build quality is obviously far superior.

I am sure Adey is regretting ruining his reputation by going for cheap build quality. He used to have the market sown up when Magnaclean first came out.

However I still say that the powerful magnet in the Magnaclean is spectacular at collecting black sludge, before during and after using X400.

 

[Alfredo]

Thanks for the advice all, I'll look into all these things. I think I'll do the flushes myself for now as these are easily DIYable, but I'll need to get some professional advice on the best place to put a filter, so I'll ask about that shortly when I have the boiler serviced. Excuse my ignorance, but I assume that putting inhibitors into the smaller expansion tank in the loft for the central heating won't affect the hot water supply in any way? I don't know how this system works, I assume it's a standard open-vented system (two different sized tanks in the loft, and a hot water cylinder in one of the upstairs bedroom). The last thing I want is to be sticking chemicals into the hot water, obviously...

Just look into each tank..then ask yourself..which is the one which contains the water I bathe in.....yup..its not the grotty dirty water in the little tank. Thats the one you tip all your foul chemicals into. The missus will not be impressed if you start tipping them into the big tankr as it will mask her Chanel No5 quite effectively after she has bathed....but, on the other hand, she will not suffer electrolytic corrosion

Alfredo

 

[JohnD]

bale out all the mud from the F&E tank and sponge it clean before you start your cleaning regime. If there is any trace of fungus or bacterial slime in it, wipe it and the ball valve and lid with bleach and wipe clean as well, but report back here as you will need additional biocide to prevent a recurrence.

 

[gac1]

Just look into each tank..then ask yourself..which is the one which contains the water I bathe in.....yup..its not the grotty dirty water in the little tank

I know which tank the stuff needs to go into, but just want to make sure there's no chance of cross-contamination. When I flushed it before, I used a more powerful flush which recommended being in for only about a day with the water circulating for several hours, so it was only in for a day and then I flushed it out twice and refilled with clean water to try and make sure there was no cross-contamination. However with this, and leaving chemicals in the supply, I just wanted to double check. I've since checked and my hot water cylinder is branded as a double-feed indirect one, which as I understand it means the water from the boiler and the stored hot water never come into direct contact so it's not a problem.

I'll bear in mind what you said about removing the mud from the expansion tank, I have to admit I didn't do that last time, just drained the water and refilled. However, from what I remember there was nothing that looked fungal or bacterial so it seemed safe to refill. I'll definitely keep that in mind though, thanks.

 

[gac1]

I've reposted my original thread rather than start a new one...I looked into your advice above, I'm hopefully going to be in a position to change the boiler before winter so I haven't fitted the Spirovent or similar (seemed like a waste of £100 on my current system when it would likely be taken out again when I replace it). I've just drained my central heating and refilled with Cal-Chem, anyone heard of it? It claims to do all three tasks in one treatment (clean, descale, inhibit, 1L/100L which sounds about right for my 10 rad house) so I figured it was worth a try. If there's no improvement I've only wasted a tenner on it and can get the separates afterwards.

However, a small problem is that now I've refilled and bled all the radiators, 3 of the 5 downstairs ones are still cold. The other 2 downstairs are hot, and all 5 upstairs are hot. There's no air trapped in the radiators as turning the bleed key returns (cold) water instantly, so have I got air trapped in the pipework? If I leave the CH on, will this gradually work its way around until it gets into one of the rads and rises to the top of it ready to be bled? Been on for about an hour so far to get the treatment circulating as the heating's not in use this time of year, but maybe it needs a bit longer?

Cheers all!

 

[JohnD]

turn off the hot rads and the pump will cause the flow to go round the cold ones.

then look up "balancing radiators" in plumbing FAQ.