Cracked wooden purlin

[barr96]

Hello all,

i recently bought and moved into a flat on the top floor of an old house. The survey picked up a cracked purlin in one of the bedrooms which was from a failed lintel on the ground floor (since replaced)

The cracked purlin has had a metal casing screwed to it from the previous owner, but after a number of friends and a builder have all commented that the metal cases wont do the job if there is anymore movement up or below.

Ive attached pictures to give you a clearer picture than the waffle above!

What i need to know if i need to replace the purlin with a new one? and if so how would the roof be supported when the purlin was replaced (havent even thought how i would get a 18foot beam up 3 flights of stairs probably hoisted up through the window!

any advice appreciated on whether im ok with the metal case or need a new purlin? if so anyone know a good (insured!) builder in Birmingham that could do this? = Thanks in advance, Richard

 

[HowlinWilf]

I reckon that the reason the purlin wasn't replaced at the time it cracked was because of the cost and the upheaval/collateral damage involved in doing so. Which of course, will apply to you if you decide to replace it.

I also reckon that the steel casing is probably adequate. From your photos, it looks to be a substantial chunk of metal that has been properly fitted. And if the cause of the crack has been completely dealt with, then there shouldn't be any further movement below.

I've seen numerous old beams with metal plates bolted to them, and have also seen several examples of old (but still functioning) purlins shaped like a banana!

Having said all that, I'm not an expert, and am simply offering an opinion. I guess if you really are worried, then you ought to arrange for an inspection by a building engineer.

But I don't think you should lose any sleep over it!

 

[^woody^]

Ignore your friends and the builder

Its one ugly MOFO of a repair, but it is OK

And you could have made the bed

But as this is a flat, the structure is the responsibility of the landlord or building owner/management firm, and this purlin is not your responsibility

 

[barr96]

Hi Woody, the purlin and roof is my responsibility, although the damage has been caused by my downstairs nieghbour (the freeholder) not fixing the failed lintel (well 2 years after it deflected, dont get me started on that one)

Ive rang round this morning for quotes on getting a new pine 8 by 3 beam (18ft) quotes coming back at around £200 - like Wilf said i will get a structural engineer in to have a look at how the roof can be supported when the cracked beam is removed.

PS G/F aka cleaner is away so bed, dishs and clothes in a pile

 

[^woody^]

Check you lease.

It is very unusual for a leaseholder or owner/occupier to be responsible for parts of the structure in a multi-let property.

And you may even be prevented from doing structural work without express consent from the building owner

 

[barr96]

yes the lease is very messy, but i have quoted a few lines below.


"the lessor (freeholder) will maintain and keep in repair the whole of the lessors estate including the building but excluding the flat"

"(The leasse (me) The outer walls thereof (other party walls) and the roof space, the roof chimneys stacks and pots if any and the rainwater spouts and pipes and shall include the floor of the flat but not the ceiling of the flat below"

PS he is aware of the broken beam and said 'yeh go and fix it'

nice man... not

 

[Symptoms]

barr - you don't need to take the old purlin out, however that "metal casing" is an inadequate repair. Three routes you could take:

1. replace the purlin - expensive, difficult, messy, etc., etc. ... and unnessary!
2. 'sister' additional structural timbers along the old purlin (a bit like a splint or a sandwich); these are bolted together. A very common repair in the 'old days' but not looked on favourably by many Building Inspectors these days.
3. bolt a length of steel strip (say 100mm wide x 12mm thick) along the purlin - the 100mm dimension is vertical. This steel should span well in excess of those rafters and be fitted on the dormer side of the purlin. The advantage of this method is that the repair will be discrete, exceed BI expectations, easy to install (shortish length and not weigh much to carry up the stairs) and be inexpensive. Check your local Yellow Pages for a steel fabricator or engineering co. and get them to supply, drill the bolt holes, etc. Fitting is easy - a couple of G-clamps to hold it in place, using the steel as a guide drill through the purlin then fix with bolts/washes/nuts.

Also a good place to fix the shackles for all that 'bed action' that seems to be going on

You wrote:" PS G/F aka cleaner is away so bed, dishs and clothes in a pile" ... a boy of your age should SHARING the household chores with the "GF". Become a 'new man' and reap the benefits that will come

 

[barr96]

Hi Symptoms,

Ive just had a builder out who quoted a solution which is practically indentical to yours - steel strip.

He hasnt given me a price just yet but will let me know in the next few days, so thanks for your advice, much appreciated!

PS

You wrote "Also a good place to fix the shackles for all that 'bed action' that seems to be going on"

thats the difference between a G/F and a wife

 

[^woody^]

"the lessor (freeholder) will maintain and keep in repair the whole of the lessors estate including the building but excluding the flat"

"(The leasse (me) The outer walls thereof (other party walls) and the roof space, the roof chimneys stacks and pots if any and the rainwater spouts and pipes and shall include the floor of the flat but not the ceiling of the flat below"

The first paragraph seems normal - the landlord/lessor will maintain the building envelope ....... "keep in repair" has specific meaning in this context and will mean to fix what is broken - ie the purlin

The second paragraph seems contradictory to the first. It seems to be saying that the lease includes for the outer walls chimneys and gutters etc. This would not be the case, and these would be the responsibility of the lessor.

You certainly would not be leasing the external structure and nor the roof structure - which the purlin is part of despite being in the room.

Your conveyance solicitor should have pointed out onerous or misleading/contradictory/unenforceable terms in the lease. And the landlord can not evade his other statutory obligations which come with granting a residential lease.

Also, a lessor would not want one of the leaseholders messing with structural elements. He would want notice and full structural reports and would have to specifically agree and grant permission - which may attract an admin fee payable by the leaseholder.

In summary, the purlin would not generally be yours to mess with. And the landlord would argue that the purlin is fixed and that's the condition it has been leased in

 

[barr96]

Hi woody, thanks for your advice

I found these guys www.lease-advice.org who provide free (residental) leasehold advice, so im going to give them a call and run over my concerns

Thanks again