DB earth fed direct from HRC fused cutout or from external MET first?

[EFLImpudence]

As I've said, same here.
Agreed. However, since you've never seen one attached to an earth block, you presumably are one of those who has never fitted them. If you believe that is non-compliant with the regulations, why did you not attach labels? (just because "no-one else does"?)

I can't remember where I heard it or when but I have always thought the label was not reqired in the cut out and meter box.

Other than that, I have to say I was not aware of the regulation - or maybe your interpretation is correct.

Why, then not require it in a DB/CU?

 

[JohnW2]

I can't remember where I heard it or when but I have always thought the label was not reqired in the cut out and meter box. ... Other than that, I have to say I was not aware of the regulation ...

Fair enough.

- or maybe your interpretation is correct. ... Why, then not require it in a DB/CU?

Well, all I've been trying to do (and even that a struggle) is to apply some common sense. IF (and I really do doubt it) such a label is ever going to achieve anything, I would think it has to be in situations in which some earth connections are not 'obviously' associated with some nearby component of the electrical installation (cutout, DB/CU etc.).

If there were a requirement for such a label within a CU/DB (which would seem to make absolutely no sense), then I don't think it would make any less sense (if anything is 'less sense' than "absolutely no sense"!) to require a similar label on every earth connection within a back box of an accessory!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

So - they are probably only of use, but not really, on service pipes with bonding conductors.

 

[Iggifer]

Fair enough. Particularly given the existence of the regulation, I suppose it's inevitable that some people will have done it - but how often have you actually seen it?

As I've said, in a situation like that I really don't see the point. Is a complete idiot any more likely to 'remove' that earth block or any of the connections to it than to 'remove', say, one or both of the tails emerging from the isolator?!

Kind Regards, John

Can probably count on one hand how many times I’ve seen it domestically. Commercial/Indistrial it’s certainly much more common. Even get each cable labelled some of the time which is nice

 

[JohnW2]

So - they are probably only of use, but not really, on service pipes with bonding conductors.

Yes, that, and earth rods etc. - in my opinion (for what that's worth!) - and even then (again, IMO) probably pretty worthless.

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

When ukpn replaced our cutout, the braid they fitted from the sheath of the incomer to their main earthing terminal, they attached one of those labels.
I did think it was common sense not to remove that connection, but common sense is only common to people who are knowledgeable in that area. Rather than specifying a detailed set of criteria for whether to label, it's less bad to label when unnecessary then not label when necessary.
There's very little penalty for over clarity (assuming you don't count endless discussions on diynot)

 

[333rocky333]

That's what, apparently unlike EFLI, I was also not sure about, either, and maybe not even a metre - perhaps 500 or even 300 mm.

As I asked EFLI is it your practice to attach such labels to a MET which is very close to (but not inside) a CU/DB, and is it your experience that most others do this?

Kind Regards, John

We do mainly commercial work and yes you do occasionally tend to see the stickers within a meter from the head, on the off chance I do work involving an existing block like an extra bond or tidying up connections for whatever reason, then yes I have fixed a sticker often with screws, if there was none present, i dont know anyone else that does, more because of there lack of knowledge of the regs unfortunately.

 

[JohnW2]

When ukpn replaced our cutout, the braid they fitted from the sheath of the incomer to their main earthing terminal, they attached one of those labels. ... I did think it was common sense not to remove that connection, but common sense is only common to people who are knowledgeable in that area. Rather than specifying a detailed set of criteria for whether to label, it's less bad to label when unnecessary then not label when necessary.

That's true, but if we are concerned about common sense which is not common to people who are not "knowledgeable in the area", then there are often things in the vicinity of an earth block the removal of which would present a much more immediate risk to health and survival than the earth block and its connections. For example, my earth block is very close to a whole pile of 'Henleys' (without seals) none of which bear any warning not to open (let alone 'remove'!) them.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Can probably count on one hand how many times I’ve seen it domestically.

That seems to be the emerging consensus.

Commercial/Indistrial it’s certainly much more common. Even get each cable labelled some of the time which is nice

You mean this sort of labelling, in my domestic installation (without labelled earth blocks )? (Even if the labels are not very easily read in this photo - apologies !) ....

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

That looks more like a map of the underground than an electrical installation I've seen!

 

[JohnW2]

That looks more like a map of the underground than an electrical installation I've seen!

... but's that's only a very small part of the entire underground network - maybe I should show you the whole thing) if my camera has a wide-enough angle lens - it's a very narrow room, so I can't get very far from the 'map' !!

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

That's true, but if we are concerned about common sense which is not common to people who are not "knowledgeable in the area", then there are often things in the vicinity of an earth block the removal of which would present a much more immediate risk to health and survival than the earth block and its connections. For example, my earth block is very close to a whole pile of 'Henleys' (without seals) none of which bear any warning not to open (let alone 'remove'!) them.

Kind Regards, John

Disconnecting at the Met i guess could defer the danger and cause problems not realised for some time , I think its more regarding safety rather than danger, whereas touching other stuff would likely be evident straight away, if not dangerous.
i feel Earth wires are more likely to be tampered with if remote rather than at the supply source, though I can't say I have ever seen the Met that far from the intake.
I guess some people doing plumbing works don't give a second thought to removing Earth clamps thus leaving other pipes unbonded, even if temporary, though they would likely think twice before touching the Met.
At least if the unacknowledged found an unattached Earth wire in a premises and traced it back, a label at the Met would indicate the possible severity of it being unattached.

 

[JohnW2]

i feel Earth wires are more likely to be tampered with if remote rather than at the supply source, though I can't say I have ever seen the Met that far from the intake.

Agreed, on both counts.

I guess some people doing plumbing works don't give a second thought to removing Earth clamps thus leaving other pipes unbonded, even if temporary, though they would likely think twice before touching the Met.

That's probably true, even if the MET is unlabelled. Mind you, since they "don't give a second thought" to removing a bonding clamp (even though most of them do have a warning label attached), if they were contemplating touching the MET, I'm not sure that a label on that would make much difference!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I can't remember where I heard it or when but I have always thought the label was not reqired in the cut out and meter box.

514.13.1 is clear, is it not?

 

[EFLImpudence]

It is, so I was right and wrong at the same time, dependent on how separate.