Debs Worcester Highflow 4.5

[Agile]

Our Worcester highflow 4.5 has failed this morning (New Years Day!!! - great start!!!) Yesterday we noticed two radiators sounded like water was running through them constantly but didn't investigate further as all seemed ok with boiler. Woken this morning by a problem we have had a few times before which we always associate with low pressure - boiler banging away, pipes very noisy and after a minute or so pilot goes out.

So as we usually do, this morning topped up pressure, but same problem, very noisy and pilot out straight away. Other half then bled radiators with key and seemed to be quite a lot of air in them. Now no air, but boiler still not working. Pressure is on 1.5bar, pilot is a problem lighting, will light eventually. As soon as it fires, pressure rises to 2bar, lots of banging noises, and pilot goes out.

Also the large metal box (is this a tank?) which takes most of the right hand side of the boiler sounds like it has water constantly going through it (more than a trickle but not fast running water). Cant ever recall it doing this before. We had pressure vessel replaced around 4 years ago. Have googled and read lots about pressure etc today, note you say don't touch pressure relief valve, but our red button on end doesn't actually feel like its doing anything, would describe it as free-turning for half a turn?

We have always had probs with boiler, we have ALWAYS had to turn heating down to run a hot bath, and hot water runs intermittently hot then cold, but have had our original installer check this at various times when servicing boiler and even had Worcester come out to do a service and ask them but all have said its normal??!!

At the end of the day we just cant afford a new boiler at the moment, prob need to get someone out but would be nice if Hubby could have a few things to check on first, sorry for length of this post but thought it best to give as much info as poss and please bear in mind if you are good enough to reply that 1. I am a woman and 2. Hubby isn't very technically minded!!! Many thanks!

 

[Deb23]

Agile - many thanks for copying this thread for me! As you have picked this up so quickly hope sombody might be able to help!! Thanks again.

 

[Agile]

I suspect most of your problems have always been because you dont check and top up water pressure until its already gone to zero.

Its a bit like topping up your cars engine oil after its all gone and the engine is seized up.

A friend with a two year old car stuck yellow stickers to remind him of things all over the gauges and failed to see the oil warning light on the motorway until the engine seized up. That oversight cost him £2300 !

You could try bleeding pump screw, see FAQ on this site for details. It may just be air in the pump although there are many places where air can accumulate.

Be aware your boiler is old and overdue for replacement!

Tony

 

[kevindgas]

the prv on these is on top of the heat store (left 1/2 of boiler) and is prone to overflowing if it operates.
the syptoms described sound to me like the heat store is on its way out.
sadly it is obsolete we have just changed one for a customer for this reason the store had rotted out and they had water pouring out across floor & through ceiling below! great to have to go and drain this at midnight NOT!!

 

[Deb23]

Thanks for all the tips and help with this - eventually got the boiler running yesterday with the help of a knowledgable and very helpful relative, and as we thought, there was a lot of air in the system which has now been bled through and working! However solving this problem has brought on another! We have a Worcester Highflow 4.5 (a floor standing boiler) and when the front panel is off to the left hand side upper middle is a motorised valve which has a sticky sign on it saying 'when filling the system the motorised valve should be manually opened, return to closed position after filling' There is a small lever underneath that was stuck, however we moved it to open, when filling the system and this is now leaking. Sometimes just a tiny drip sometimes a bit more and sometimes not at all, probably lost about a pint of water over the last 24 hours. My relative has now gone on hols, don't want to bother him as he was so helpful yesterday, but need to have this problem sorted. Can somebody tell me what this valve is please? (is it the dreaded diverter valve I keep reading about??) Need to have a look on this site so we can get an idea of whether its a big job or not, and approx, how much we would be looking at to having it fixed. As mentioned before, we know we need a new boiler, so don't want to pay a fortune to get this fixed now if we are going to have new boiler in spring. As mentioned before I am a girl so would really appreciate easy to understand answers if that's OK? many thanks!! PS (I am checking pressure regularly, as assume if its leaking water will need to top up occasionally, but at the mo pressure has remained stable at 1.5bar). Thanks again!!

 

[Agile]

Thats the diverter valve! It may stop leaking.

If not it will have to be replaced. Its different from the usual stand alone domestic mid position valve.

Its possible that the body is still the same as the latest mid position valves from the same maker. That would have to be checked. The domestic valves are about £55.

The boiler spare if available would probably be about £89-£90.

We would charge about £84 plus the cost of the valve to fit if the boiler can be isolated to easily drain.

As I said before all your problems seem to have been caused by not topping up the boiler regularly. Thats both inconveneint and costly.

What can be done to get houseowners to check their boiler pressures? Although it creates perhaps 15% of my income!

Tony

 

[Deb23]

Hi - thanks for such a quick reply. As I stated in my first post, we have always had a problem with hot water or lack of it. When running a bath we have to run it really slowly and it runs hot and cold alternately but if run slow enough is usually fairly hot, however if we turn CH off it is a bit hotter. Having spent the last couple of days trawling through posts here I felt I have learnt a little bit and it seems the diverter valve is what switches from HW to CH etc. Could this have been our problem all along? Also when you say it may stop leaking, any idea of how long I should be prepared to wait to see and the likelihood of this happening??! (Sorry, I know, how long is a piece of string!!) Thanks also for the pricing info, however note you are in London and we are Hampshire so prob out of your area?? Also just wanted to say, we do keep a check on water pressure and top up fairly regularly as can usually tell if getting low by boiler getting bit noisier, but has always run at around 1 bar, think this is prob down to the info we received from our installer who has set our red marker at 1.5 bar!! I got the impression that meant it shouldn't go over that marker but again reading here, I see that's probably not correct!!

 

[kevindgas]

the redmarker should be set at 1.5 bar and you should top up so that the black one is underneath it but saying that the boiler will be fine on anything over 1 bar if it is working correctly.

 

[Agile]

Also just wanted to say, we do keep a check on water pressure and top up fairly regularly as can usually tell if getting low by boiler getting bit noisier, but has always run at around 1 bar, think this is prob down to the info we received from our installer who has set our red marker at 1.5 bar!!

Its too late by the time it has got noisier! You must learn to look at it daily if necessary when you clean your teeth! Top up when it goes below 1 Bar.

Its possible the diverter valve is not operating and stuck in the middle. Your boiler should give good HW performance when its working correctly.

I only mentioned the prices we would charge in our local area by way of comparisom.

Tony

 

[Deb23]

Also just wanted to say, we do keep a check on water pressure and top up fairly regularly as can usually tell if getting low by boiler getting bit noisier, but has always run at around 1 bar, think this is prob down to the info we received from our installer who has set our red marker at 1.5 bar!!

Its too late by the time it has got noisier! You must learn to look at it daily if necessary when you clean your teeth! Top up when it goes below 1 Bar.

Really - that often?? Thanks for the comparison prices. Looking at BG website they will come out and do a repair for a one-off fixed price of £192, no repair no fee. Do you think that might be my best way to go? OH is not convinced?? (He's looking for low price, I'm look for an easy option)! I'm just thinking that if I wont be hit my any surprises that way!!

 

[Deb23]

the redmarker should be set at 1.5 bar and you should top up so that the black one is underneath it but saying that the boiler will be fine on anything over 1 bar if it is working correctly.

Thanks for this - notice you are in Southampton, do you work any further afield? We are further east than that, tho still Hampshire?

 

[Agile]

You need to look at it as often as it needs to get it repressurised before it becomes noisy ( usually that about 0.2-0.3 Bar. )

Worcester no longer provide maintenance for them so I doubt that British Gas do either as many spares are no longer available.

Kevin seems to like working in B'mth so I dont see why Gosport would be out of range.

Tony

 

[Deb23]

I am checking pressure twice daily at the mo so very aware now, thanks to your advice!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WORCESTER-HIG...arden_Hearing_Cooling_Air?hash=item3ca35a32b9

Found this on ebay, says it is for Highflow 4.5, do you think it might be the part I'm looking for? Looks slightly different in that mine is silver (chrome) and this is white but that could just be modernisation!!!

If it was I would just be looking for an engineer to fit it, which might be a bit easier! Thanks again.

 

[Agile]

I think that is a later/cheaper alternative make which should fit OK.

Are you sure yours is leaking or not moving properly?

Tony

 

[Deb23]

Ours is definitely leaking from underneath (by the lever). About a pint a day. Not sure if lever is moving properly, is there a way I can check? I can move it by hand but not sure if this is telling me anything.? Not got any worse or any better since saturday as far as leaking goes.