Demarcation point with external extensions?

[Sawkins]

My master socket has 3 cables coming through the wall and into the back of it.

Cable A is connected to terminals 2, 3 and 5 and I'm guessing this is the one that goes to the phone pole in the street.

Cable B is connected to terminals 2 and 5 and it goes down the front of the house and in again to a socket downstairs.

Cable C isn't connected to anything, the wires are all in terminators or just left bare. It goes round the side of the house, through an external junction box (which doesn't have any other connections) and in again to a socket in a back room (a nice newish one with a detachable front plate).

Are all 3 cables on the supply side of the demarcation point? Or are Cables B and C mine?

 

[simonpolly]

Are they connected to the removable front plate ?,NTE connections where the external cable comes into the premises are labelled as A and B ,the older ones also had a earth connection

 

[Lectrician]

Photos would help

 

[Sawkins]

Close-up photo taking was harder than I expected:

View media item 17171
Left: Cable A (blue/white to 2, brown/white to 3, white/blue to 5)
Centre: Cable C (not connected to anything except that tangle of wires right)
Right (very short, seen end-on): Cable B (green to 2, black to 5, white not connected, two reds not connected)

View media item 17172

Are they connected to the removable front plate ?,NTE connections where the external cable comes into the premises are labelled as A and B ,the older ones also had a earth connection

The only socket that meets that description is the one at the back of the house, the one connected to the other end of Cable C.

 

[Lectrician]

How about some photos of the other sockets too?

If this photo is the main master socket, it is off the older type.

It looks as if that socket may be your master socket, odd that they are using the green/black pair of the drop wire (the cable with the green/black is the one from the pole IMO). This cable will have an orange/white too, and the reds will be strengtheners to support the cable overhead.

The cable connected to 2/3/5 will be for your extension socket.

The newer extension socket sounds like it may be a new NTE5a master socket being used as an extension which is a little odd. Photo would help. As this 'extension' is disconnected, I wonder if it possibly was a different line, connected to the orange/white of the drop wire at some point - can you take the cover off that extension and see what is connected there?

What is your aim? To get the other point working?

The only cable that is not yours is the drop from the pole. Strictly speaking, you are not meant to make any connections to those older type master sockets, but this is seldom an issue, and does not cause technical issues.

 

[TicklyT]

I wonder if, at some point, there were two lines installed,with the O/W pair extended through the internal wiring to an NTE5, and a second line on the G/Bk terminating on the LJU 2/1 in your piccie?

I would consider the LJU 2/1 in your picture as the demarcation point.

The term 'External Extension' has a precise meaning in telecomms. It is part of a private network that is carried over a service provider's network, but capable of carrying calls made from the public network. Often they link very distant locations, maybe even on different continents.

As that means the supplier is providing a service that's in effect in competition with it's own public network, they tend to charge an arm and a leg to do it.

All wiring within or around a building or group of buildings at one address, other than the supplier's wiring to the demarcation point / first socket is considered as internal wiring, whether it is inside or run around the outside of the building.

 

[Sawkins]

Proper terms duly noted

Downstairs front (presumably at other end of Cable A). 1 green/white, 2 blue/white, 3 brown/white, 4 white/orange, 5 white/blue, 6 white/green.

View media item 17201
Downstairs back (the 'newish' one at the other end of Cable C). White/blue to terminal A, blue/white to terminal B.

View media item 17202
Aims - yes I'd like to get the back socket connected up if that's allowed. But also, line quality is terrible and gradually getting worse, like shortwave radio with static and hissing. I want to be sure which cables and sockets are my responsibility so as not to get charged if Openreach come out and say that the fault is on my side of the line.

 

[Lectrician]

That last pic looks like a completely different line, which would have been on a different pair in the drop cable from the pole.

The socket in the very first pic is the master, and the green and black provide th eline to it. Disconnect everything else off the socket and see what the line is like then. This rules out internal cables.

If it was me, I would move the socket in your last pic and place this at the position where the three cables are, and connect the green and black to the A and B.

Then using the removable lower half, and the other 2 cables, connect the blue/white to 2, the white/blue to 5, the orange/white to 3, the white/orange to 4.

At the other end of the other two cables, connect with the same colours/numbers to SECONDARY sockets (you already have one of them, and you could cut off the components on the old style master to obtain another).

Strictly speaking you should not tamper with the master or move/change it.

 

[Sawkins]

I'd like to replace the master, but I'm paranoid about BT coming round one day and saying 'We last visited in 1986 to install a fixed plate socket, but this is a detachable front type socket from about 20 years later. You're going down'

But, I disconnected the downstairs secondary socket from the other end of Cable A, and the hissing and crackling stopped straight away. I replaced it with a new secondary socket, still no interference, and my broadband speed has gone up 33%.

 

[drgl]

I'd like to replace the master, but I'm paranoid about BT coming round one day and saying 'We last visited in 1986 to install a fixed plate socket, but this is a detachable front type socket from about 20 years later. You're going down'

(1) It isn't illegal.
(2) BT will probably not know nor care!