Difficulty unscrewing ceramic cartridge on bath mixer

[braychurchmouse]

I need to replace the ceramic cartridges on a deck mounted bath shower mixer tap. Its aprox 1990 vintage and I recollect its a Tantoflex (or is it Tantofex). Ive sent photos to Lunns for identification and quote, but they reckon there are two possibilities so I need to unscrew it and send another photo of the cartridge out of the tap. Of course I'll need to unscrew it anyway, but for the moment my task is to get it off for the photo.(!).

I've got rid of most of the limescale since the photo below was taken but I still can't shift the cartridge. I'm reluctant to apply too much pressure because I'm just using an adjustable spanner and don't want to mess up the hex sides.

So any tips to free it? I can't seem to find an exact fit amongst my spanners. Its just a wee bit bigger than my 19mm spanner. Presumably its an Imperial size? Any info? If I can be sure of the exact size I'll buy a ring spanner and then I'll be confident in applying significant pressure. Maybe a sideways bash with a hammer?

Untitled

• braychurchmouse
• 10 Jun 2008
• 1

Untitled

• braychurchmouse
• 10 Jun 2008
• 1

 

[Softus]

You'll shift it with the correctly-sized ring spanner.

An alternative would be a long-reach socket on a 2' breaker bar.

 

[Blasphemous]

You'll shift it with the correctly-sized ring spanner.

An alternative would be a long-reach socket on a 2' breaker bar.

Yep I agree with softus... A ring Spanner. Or for a really tough one... Stilsons. Which if you don't know, look like....

 

[Technotim]

Those stilsons Look Scary!

The easiest way is to have a good tight purchase on the Hex nut and give a short sharp tap/bang which the shock will release the valve.

you should be able to achieve this with adjustables 10"

I know it obivous anti clock wise.

 

[braychurchmouse]

Any ideas on what type of spanner? Difficult to go out and buy one taking the bath with me.
As I mentioned its slightly bigger than my 19mm spanner so I wonder whether its half inch BSF or 7/16 Whitworth? (from http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/spanners.htm.

Or would it actually be a metric size?

I think its going to be important to get an exact match ring spanner to avoid damaging it.

 

[Softus]

As I mentioned its slightly bigger than my 19mm spanner

In that case it's 20mm, surely?

so I wonder whether its half inch BSF or 7/16 Whitworth?

Very unlikely to be either of those. In the similarly unlikely event that it's AF, try 3/4" and 11/16".

Or would it actually be a metric size?

I'll put a tenner on it being metric.

The easiest way is to have a good tight purchase on the Hex nut and give a short sharp tap/bang which the shock will release the valve.

That is so not the easiest or the best way. Clearly you don't service many taps.

The best way is to apply a steady force, in the right direction, with a tool that cannot slip around the nut.

you should be able to achieve this with adjustables 10"

Bad advice, because if the wrench starts to round off the nut, you make the job even more difficult.

There has to be a very good reason not to always use a ring spanner to remove tap headwork.

Just as an anecdotal side, here's what a complete wazzuk did to a basin monobloc that I recently replaced. Whoever it was cost the house owner an unnecessary £54.

View media item 1822

 

[Technotim]

I Agree the correct sized Ring spanner is the best tool, I have serviced lots of taps in my time and never damaged the Hex nut by Having a good tight purchase on the nut and as said a sharp tap.

A longer tool always helps create the correct force.

I have bashed my knuckles many times before when applying steady pressure and it hurts as the valve tends to give suddenly.

More than one way to skin a cat
I no I dont skin a cat with a Axe from 30 yards.....

 

[braychurchmouse]

Thanks for the advice folks. Cleaned off all the crud and borrowed one of those electronic vernier measurers. Definitely 20mm. So off to Slough Trading Estate tomorrow to get a meaty ring spanner. I always thought our funny English plumbing bits were Imperial.

Strange how all the cheap ring spanner sets seem to go up to 19mm then skip to 22mm. I'll have to pay £8 for a 20mm one but could buy a whole 12 piece set at Screwfix for £7.99.

 

[braychurchmouse]

Actually before the die is cast, so to speak, could I ask if there is ever a posibility of sorting out a leaking ceramic tap without having to buy new cartridges. The problem is a slow drip (sounds like me ) about every 10 secs. I have just been assuming that as its about 18 years old the ceramic cartridge needs replacing. And while I'm at it, it makes sense to do both sides of the mixer. But if its a question of a bit of grit trapped or similar, is there a chance that just cleaning the cartridge and tap housing will fix it? ... and save me about £50!

 

[Softus]

Actually before the die is cast, so to speak, could I ask if there is ever a posibility of sorting out a leaking ceramic tap without having to buy new cartridges.

Only if the problem is a piece of debris stopping the valve from completely closing. In your case the leak sounds to slow to be that.

The problem is a slow drip (sounds like me ) about every 10 secs. I have just been assuming that as its about 18 years old the ceramic cartridge needs replacing. And while I'm at it, it makes sense to do both sides of the mixer.

Er, two is double the work, so why?

But if its a question of a bit of grit trapped or similar, is there a chance that just cleaning the cartridge and tap housing will fix it?

Slightly more than zero chance.

... and save me about £50!

Why is going to cost £50?

 

[braychurchmouse]

Thanks Softus...seems like I'm going to have to replace the ceramic cartridge when I finally get it out and identified.

Why is going to cost £50?

I was just going on what some of the pairs of cartridges on the Lunns web site http://www.lunns.net/tapspares/ seemed to cost. £30-£40, and £4.50 delivery then around £5 VAT and as a humble consumer I won't get any Trade discount.

Hopefully mine won't be as expensive and I may be able to get it locally without the delivery charge...and of course I'll ask for a Cash discount but I think while I'm at it I might as well do both taps.

 

[Technotim]

With ceramic disc cartriges the faces can get scored and when they do theres not alot you can do, one solution that is worth giving a go is silicone grease packing between the faces.

If the faces are dry then they can let by, Low chances of success, you spend all that time and the B*** drips two weeks later and just give the missus another reason to point out how tight you were not spendind 5 grand on a new suite.


The problem can be lots of shops are not interested in getting spare valves for people they just want to sell you a set of taps.

This is where old boy plumbers merchants are missed in certain areas, people go there to buy a washer or a valve for 30pence or a valve for fiver take up loads of advice and time then go and spend the real money for a new suite down the road in the big chains. (Moan of the day)

 

[Softus]

This is where old boy plumbers merchants are missed in certain areas, people go there to buy a washer or a valve for 30pence or a valve for fiver take up loads of advice and time then go and spend the real money for a new suite down the road in the big chains. (Moan of the day)

Hear hear.

Too many people go to Screwfix because they're cheaper, and thereby bang more nails in the coffin of local merchants. I made the mistake of going to a Screwfix depot once, in desperation, in Northampton, on a Saturday afternoon, and they were so incompetent that the wasted time used up all my profit on the job in hand. I will never, ever, EVER, go to any Screwfix branch again.

 

[Technotim]

I had a merchant / bathroom showroom for some 18 years now, a few years ago I started an online company and now we have grown to be in a position to be selling a very good prices and in a lot larger quantitys than as a small local company. I can no longer afford to sell a tap washer or as we used to a split pin for a ball valve, but I can give customer service and support.
This is lost with multinationals. long live independants (till some multinational buys my company).Then I proberbly we give up caring.

 

[Blasphemous]

I will never, ever, EVER, go to any Screwfix branch again.

WOW! They really peed you off softus but I like a man who stands by his principles.... i used to stand by mine but I think I peed them off because I haven't seen them in a long while