DIY Mistake with rewire

[Kevin Feenie]

All,
I am a novice to electrics so hopefully I can find some assitance to a couple of problems I have (maybe one i created!)
Having read alot of threads and postings on this site and others like it I attempted to fit some ceiling roses to some pre exsisting wiring in my house in the UK. The wiring is very old i realise that but for now a full rewire is out of the question financially so I setout with some moneysaving intentions.
There were previosuly working chandelier type lights on the ceiling in the living room and dining room but these were removed when ceiling was replastered and bare wires left so i dont know how the wiring was hooked up previously. On two of the target ceiling wiring I had a live (red) earth (green on one and bare copper on the other) along with two black wires. Reading the guidance i found I assumed that one of blacks should be neutral and the other a live switched. I set out with my multi meter and having turned off all the power to the house, checked for low or zero resistance across the red and each black. The first setup I tested proved succesful in respect of this test. One of the black wires caused the ohms reading on the multi meter to zero out when switch was on, the other kept it at 1( switch on and switch off). All good so far.
On the second setup I couldnt get either black wire to move the multi meter at all, what type of problem would this indicate and what would be the next logical steps to rectify it?
On another setup, the kitchen, there was a working wiring of the same setup as before 1 red, 2 black and a green earth, wired into a three unit spotlight. The wiring from the ceiling came into the unit into a connector which passed the red to 3 browns, earth (green) folded back not connected and finally the two blacks were twisted together and wired to the connecter to 3 blues.
I untwisted the two blacks and carried out the mutli meter test again on the red and each black but like before I couldnt find a switch wire.
Perhaps I should have stopped at this point however as I mentioned being the novice I am I attempted to wire it up to the ceiling rose on the basis that if it was working before I should have no issues so I went red to brown, green to earth and had a guess at the blacks, one to live one to loop. It didnt work. No power to light switched or not.
To top it off I tried putting all the wiring back to the way it was (retwisted the blacks) and put the old fitment back on but to no avail, the light wont work at all now.
has anyone got any advice on either of the questions above that might help me out.
I am willing to get a proper sparky in but thought i would give the forum a shot before doing so.
One last thing, on the 1st setup where I succesfully managed to find a switch wire, i attempted the wiring to a standard cieling rose as follows, red to loop, green to earth, identified switched black to live remaining black to neutral. When i flipped the power on at the mains, power to the light but no switch control so what might I have done wrong here?
Thanks in advance

 

[flameport]

Red is switched live.
Blacks are neutrals.
There are no loop (permanent live) connections.

For future reference, if two or more wires are already connected together they must stay that way.
Separating the black wires in one light fitting is likely to result in lights in other rooms not working.

 

[AndyPRK]

In the kitchen the blacks were already connected together so should remain that Way.

Did you say the light was stuck on in the other room ?

The 2 chandlers - were they controlled off the same switch ?

 

[Kevin Feenie]

Hi thanks for the replies
@AndyPRK no the chandelier lights are controlled from different switches although they are in and open plan setting they are seperate rooms
My mistake of decoupling the black wires in the kitchen wiring and treating as switched live and neutral and wiring as so, would this have tripped or blown something given that it didnt work and now wont work putting it back to the way it was so two blacks to single blue neutral and red to brown with earth not connected i guess so as its not working but what do i check for now?

 

[AndyPRK]

pictures always help on here.

Are lights in the rest of the house working as before ?

Do you have fuses or mcb's ? Check the lighting ones (if fuses these are white)

 

[AndyPRK]

Have you separated black wires in the dinning room? May this have stopped the kitchen light? or are you sure the kitchen light was working after playing in the dinning room ?

or the problem could be simple, like cable insulation is trapped under the screw in your frustrations of things not working. Recheck in daylight.

 

[Kevin Feenie]

The dining room and living room wiring was all disconnected just taped up with insultating tape before I started, the kitchen light was working at this point. The living room 4 wire system was linked together into a three wire setup but again all disconnected so the 2 blacks were again together in that setup. Didnt think to check the kitchen light was still working following my testing but as I hadnt actually done anything other than strip off the add on three wire connection to the living room.I will get some pictures of the current setups on a a couple of minutes although i cant e sure any of these are working now as I have stopped doing anything at present. All other lights in the house are working as before hallway, stairs and upstairs.

 

[Kevin Feenie]

Here are pictures of living room, dining room and kitchen ceiling wiring. I also add a picture of the single switch boxes which power each and behind this I have checked behind these and the kitchen one has 3 wires coming into it, a red, black and earth. The dining room and living room switches have 4 wires coming in three red and 1 earth, two of the reds going into the same connector at the back.

 

[sparkwright]

It would be so much easier if you could label each picture, so we know which light is operated by each switch.

It appears you have conduit wiring. Typically this would consist of a group of neutrals and a switch live at each light fitting.

However, there is no reason why your lighting may not consist of different wiring methods - it would be foolish to assume.

The earth is provided by the metal conduit.

That light switch which I ASSUME is the kitchen with the red and black - I wonder if this is a later addition or alteration. It is wired in flat cable rather than single core cables.

That switch suggests there is another joint somewhere. Does it seem possible that switch has been moved at some stage over the years?

 

[Kevin Feenie]

@sparkwright yes your assumption is right in respect of kitchen it would have been later wiring as it was a conversion from an original bedroom. The diningroom was kitchen now kitchen is in old bedroom with diningroom created in its place. I decided to leave as is and call in a pro and will hopefully pick up from here and him on site where i went wrong
Thanks all for help and replies

 

[sparkwright]

Then I would suspect Flameport was exactly correct by stating at the lights all the blacks are neutral and the red is a switched live.

However, it still needs checking with a test instrument beforehand.