Do I need a rewire?

[sotal]

Hi, I just bought a 30 year old 4 bed detached house,

Just had a quick scan over the electrics and not sure if they are up to scratch.

The CU looks quite old and doesn't have any RCDs on it - just the large type fuses with red or blue dots on them. There is an additional box though next to the main cu which has an RCD on it for the electric shower.

Looking at the sockets in the house they all seem to be spurs, so there doesn't seem to be a ring in place.

Two bits of the wiring worried me slightly, the first was in the bedroom on one wall there is 3 double sockets. One looks to be a spur from the cu, then the other two are spurs from the first one. Am I right to be worried about that?

The second bit which worried me was the cooker spur, The cooker spur goes to a fused switch in the kitchen as per usual but then there seems to be alot wired onto the switch. The under cupboard lights are wired on to it and a double socket is wired on to it, the double socket then has the cooker plugged into a 13 amp socket and the gas hob is plugged in as well for the igniter. Never seen a cooker plugged into a 13 amp socket before! Seems to work fine though without blowing - it's a built in single fan assisted oven.

In terms of plans for the house - we plan to add an ensuite bathroom, redo the kitchen and add a conservatory so obviously the wiring will need to be added to.

So would I be best to have it rewired? I don't want to fit a nice new kitchen to then find out I should have rewired and have to rip it apart!

 

[JohnD]

Yes, probably.

Going by age mainly, it will need updating and it will probably be better to rewire the lot.

Ask around friends and neighbours for a recommended local electrician. Phone and ask if they are a member of a self-certification scheme and which one (this is important) otherwise you will have to get it inspected by the building control officer at extra trouble and expense.

Get at least two people in to look over it and give you their opinion.

So that you can compare prices, draw up a plan of what you want - upstairs ring, downstairs ring, kitchen ring; double socket in every corner of every room, say, plus at 2 meter intervals along longer walls including hall and landing; socket every metre in the kitchen, under-counter outlets for dishwasher, washing machine, tumble drier; two cooker outlets (one day you might want a double oven and an electric hob); dedicated radial circuit (not on RCD) for freezer; electric shower circuit; outside socket for lawnmower at front and back of house; outdoor security lighting, garage sockets; bathroom extractor; shaver socket, all the rest of stuff.

Specify that you want a good brand of accessories (switches and sockets) like MEM or Crabtree and same for the new consumer unit (MK are not so good now). Say if you want white accessories or fancy brass or chrome ones as they are more expensive. Avoid downlighters unless your wife makes you have them, but specify what kind you want for any fancy lighting. Spotlights are OK as they will not leave nasty holes in the ceiling when you change your mind in a year or two. Browse the catalogues and dealers to choose what you want but let your electrician order them.

If you can afford it, ask for RCBOs on your Socket Circuits and Shower rather than a split-load board. It might add up to £100 per circuit but is much more convenient.

It will be a lot easier and cheaper to have it rewired before you move in; and definitely before you redecorate.

Choose an electrician after you have visited at least one house he has recently rewired and asked the owners about his work. You must feel comfortable with him/her. A well-documented set of requirements from you will make it easier for him to give you a firm price. Don't be changing your mind half way through.

 

[empip]

...So would I be best to have it rewired? I don't want to fit a nice new kitchen to then find out I should have rewired and have to rip it apart!...

However you go about the kitchen.. stop think and plan, really think it all through, such that you'll never have to demolish the kitchen for any kind of pipe / cabling maintenance or addition ... It will happen, be sure of that...
Tis better to maintain because you can than not maintain because you fear (rightly) the turmoil and cost.
If I was currently in the market for a residence, a big plus would be access traps and thoughtful flooring.

 

[sotal]

Thanks for the replies,

It does look like I need to spend some pennies

All makes perfect sense there but the only bit I didn't understand was why the freezer etc was all on a non RCD radial circuit??

At the moment the Shower is the only part on an RCD!

I'll get a couple of quotes and see if there is anything I can do to help, I've always done my own wiring on previous houses but I've never done this much only added to existing and with all the regulations etc I'd rather get it done properly. Hopefully I can give the electrician a marker pen and ask them to draw where they want channels etc and I will make them and pull up relevant floor boards ready for him to insert wires and connect everything up.

I know it's impossible to say how much it will cost as you can't see it, so I'll get a couple of quotes and post what they are quoting for and how much they are quoting and I'll ask if it sounds OK.

Thanks for the help

 

[Taylortwocities]

I see Empip's location says that The USA is a "Minor Outlying Island"

How very true. Love it

TTC

 

[davy_owen_88]

the only bit I didn't understand was why the freezer etc was all on a non RCD radial circuit??

Because if you have an earth fault while you are away for a few days you don't want your freezer going off and spoiling all the food.

 

[sotal]

Makes sense with the freezer - never seen it done before though.


Anyway I've had a little progress which made me feel a bit stupid!

A friend who used to be an electrician had a quick look over the system for me and it turns out I have got a ring circuit - infact I've got two, one upstairs and one downstairs!

He also said that the wiring looks fine throughout except for a couple of rooms.

My mistake was looking at the sockets in the extension, which seem to have all been bodged on one spur off the ring.

Having now looked properly at the fuse box we have a 40amp Radial to the cooker, 2 x 6amp radial lighting circuits, 1x20amp for the immersion heater etc, and 2x30amp rings.

So I think I now just need a new consumer unit and the extension wiring properly onto the ring (one bedroom) should be easy to do.


So now my question is - Will a part-p electrician be willing to connect a new consumer unit up to old wiring? Will they plug something in to check the rest of the wiring?

 

[comms]

40amp Radial to the cooker

If the cooker & hob are plugged in via a 13 amp plug, down rate the fuse to 30 amp.

Will a part-p electrician be willing to connect a new consumer unit up to old wiring? Will they plug something in to check the rest of the wiring?

Any electrician you employ to change the consumer unit (if he's worth his salt) will test all the existing circuits before undertaking the consumer unit change, this is to highlight any potential problems with the wiring that may not be evident, such as the extension wiring you mentioned. Any faults that are found will abviously need to be repaired (for a cost) before the sparkx can sign of the work.

It isnt just a case of swapping the consumer unit, the electrician should also check.
main equipotential bonding (upgrade if not to current regs or install if missing).
Supplimentary bonding in bathroom/s (install if not done so).

 

[dingbat]

So now my question is - Will a part-p electrician be willing to connect a new consumer unit up to old wiring? Will they plug something in to check the rest of the wiring?

This is an everyday job for a competent spark, but he should do a lot more than 'plug something in'. A CU replacement involves a complete inspection and test of every circuit - this, if done properly, will take longer than actually changing the consumer unit. It will also reveal, if done properly, any other defects.

You may have noticed that I repeated the phrase 'if done properly'. The work should be certified and on the page of test results for the circuits every box should be filled in with a tick, a 'N/A' or a value for every circuit. (There should be very few N/A's) Be very suspicious if the testing took half an hour and the form has lots of boxes crossed out.

 

[comms]

Be very suspicious if the testing took half an hour and the form has lots of boxes crossed out.

Sad fact is dingbat this senario is becoming more prevelent.
I was asked to take a look at some certed work done in a kitchen last week by one of my neighbours (new cooker circuit with ccu/socket + extension to ringmain for three sso's). EIC only half completed, supply characteristics down as TNC-s (it had obviously changed over night because it was TT when I looked on Friday evening & was using gas service as main earth ).
Old wylex 3036 board so not an rcd insight, he did bond the gas (4mm) as it was directly below the cu, but not the water as stop cock is in a cupboard the other side of kitchen.
No labeling in sight with regard to cable colours, or circuit schedule.
The testing consisted of plugging in a plug with 3 lights on it (thats why he had to fit the ccu with socket so the customer told me).and apparently took 10 mins that included filling out EIC.
Yep this bloke could do all the work as he was multiskilled now, and so doesnt need to get other trades in (thats why he was given the job by customer) that bump up the price to the customer.
So now the customer is on the case & has passed me the remidials to quote on (if your reading martin you should have called me first off mate)

 

[sotal]

comms - thanks for the reply, I know what to look out for now.

As for the cooker - I will probably leave that at 40amp as I should be getting a double oven to replace the current one, I presume the gas hob can plug into any 13amp socket for just the igniter?

 

[dingbat]

Comms, I'm sitting here right now, going over a recent PIR, subsequent to which I have carried out remedials.

Lots of incorrect coding (2, where only a 4 is warranted), many boxes left blank, all IRs recorded as >1000M-Ohms when none come anywhere close and some sensitive equipment can't be disconnected, so it is clear these values are false. The R1 + R2 values very different from mine as well. Also, incorrect identification of what equipment is on what circuit, incorrect interpretation of regulation requirements, etc...

... and this was done by a fully-fledged, apprentice-trained, thirty-years-experience 'electrician'. You know, the ones who moan like crazy about being assessed.