Do I need planning permission to repair roof?

[diyplumber1980]

Hi, was hoping for some advice from any roofing experts.

My roof has recently been sagging slightly at the back, i called a builder in who said the support bean had split in half and had a temporary/dodgy repair made in the past, with a shorter beam bolted onto the broken beam. Also the wall on on side in the loft was not built up all the way to the top, and so the roof was basically hanging in the air with no support from the walls. I have attached pictures of this. He said the entire roof had to be stripped, all tiles removed, new beams put in, and the one wall built all the way to the top, then tiles re-layed, at a cost of £6'500.

Another builder came and said theres no need to remove the roof tiles, just brick up the missing wall, and fit a new 4inch x 8 inch/10 inch beam slightly above the broken beam and fit it into the walls on either side. The quote for this work was £2'900. A huge difference in price.

Can someone advise which is the the correct option to take, and if planning permission will be needed for these jobs?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated

 

[^woody^]

No permission needed

Avoid quote A on the basis of him being clueless and a ripoff

Quote B is more sensible but still a bit clueless

Option C would be even less money and involves a few strips of ply on the sides of that purlin to stiffen it, or a short piece of steel plate. If there is a wall below it, a timber strut too. This will be half quote B

You certainly should not need a complete new beam

 

[catlad]

If you are asking which one to go for then I can't tell you that without seeing the outside of your roof.
Your roof looks like a classic slate roof from the inside and are not normally prone to splitting their purlins unless the roof has been changed for tiles.

 

[diyplumber1980]

Woody, many thanks for the reply. Its much appreciated. Option C that you state, would that require a builder or would a competent DIY'er be able to take that task on? Would the partially built wall on the left need to be bricked all the way to the top?

Catlad, thank you for your response. You are correct, the roof is a tiled roof, and the tiles look about 10 years old, maybe more, can;t really tell, but they dont really look that old.

 

[diyplumber1980]

Heres pictures from outside the house, does that look like a serious dip in the roof or something that the above repairs would fix?

Just to add this street is not a straight row of houses, the street bends, this house is in the middle of the bend and about 6 hopuses are on this bend, could this be why the roof appears to be sloped?

 

[^woody^]

I'm on the computer now, not the phone, and I'm not sure if the images look better or worse!

That's a good old dip you have there, but not uncommon. Has it just occurred or have you known about it for a while?

Its very unlikely that you will get the roof back to anywhere near flat, and the idea is to stop any more movement. The timber fixed across the purlin is helping, and those horizontal collar beams are too. But it's not clear if those are sufficient.

I've deleted a what I was going to write, and think that if this is relatively recent, then you may want to get it looked at by a structural engineer who can comment and recommend a solution, rather then me or anyone giving our opinions.

I'll send you a pm with an option, which you may like to try

 

[diyplumber1980]

Thanks once again. It does look bad that dip but i think its been there at least a year or so, a mate noticed it whilst visiting, so we decided to investigate and saw the dodgy repairs in the loft. If its a case of a few timber studs and joists that need screwing to walls to support the current beams. and repairing the remaining joists, I think I can manage that on my own, with materials costing a couple of hundred quid. But if you think its a bigger job then I may leave it to the experts. But I do believe, from looking at it, it may just be a case of adding extra support to whats already there. We've had some bad weather over the past couple of months and nothings leaked and the roof hasnt got any worse.

 

[noseall]

Just hope you don't get any windy days!

 

[catlad]

In my experience roofs with purlins sat in that position i.e angled to the pitch of the roof always sag.

 

[ree]

Thats a good point catlad - plus the little that can be seen in pic 3. seems to show the only visible rafter foot resting on (skew nailed?), not bird's mouthed to, the plate?
Thing is, one presumes that loading of some kind caused the purlin to give?

I wonder if the purlin seating(s) were unevenly jacked/packed up when remedial masonry work was done to the party wall(s)?

However, the rafters in the loft pics seem to be in plane, and the fascia appears to be straight as a die?

The gutter sags and leaks at mid-point in the dip.

A larger view of the loft and esp. the ridge rafter might help? Pics please OP?

There is no bolting-on visible - maybe a few screws, or nails from a nail gun as fixings.

The attempts at collar ties are clapped(screwed?) together lengths not single lengths - but presumably they work.

The roof covering appears to be slate not tile - if this is the case then over-loading was not the cause of the dip.

The small section ceiling joists would not take any pressure from jacking up - but if jacking up the purlin was the way to go then bearers using the plate & any available wall might be used as a jacking platform.

 

[diyplumber1980]

thanks lads for the replies. could you please advise on the best way of strenthening this? im thinking of another beam a few inches above the broken beam going across the length of the roof for extra support, also a beam screwed to the block wall along the slope of the roof for extra support instead of rebuilding that missing wall. would this be sufficient as extra support?