Dodgy electrical system.

[stardanny]

Hi all.
Today, I went to my brother's house to replace his kitchen tap, had to move the washing machine out of way to undo tap back nut, after I finish the tap, after a good tea break and a telly later, I noticed the socket that is behind the wash. machine is a double socket with spur to w/m and there was 2 plugs in, we had no idea where this go to so I switched off both:

one goes to a outside light
one goes to a other double socket supplying a microwave oven in other side of kitchen

Also my brother ask me if it would be possible to remove a gas hob, oven and replace with a freestanding cooker, I say yeah, I can but not the hob, so I start by looking for a cooker point but it disappered but on old CU there is a 6mm cable going somewhere, and as I remember when I installed a new part wet room shower, after replacing flooring, there is 6mm cable going to a wall and I work out it must had drop down to below wall unit and I think it must had a choc block changing from 6mm to 2.5mm to the oven and sparking unit for hob. It might be buried in wall.

So what I am going to do is to remove wall tiles to find the end of 6mm and remove the 2.5mm to oven and replace it with a new cooker switch with a socket ( which will be use for microwave ) and new metal box as well and run new 6mm to the cooker via a connector box.

Then, on the socket, I will remove the socket that supplying the microwave and it cable, plug etc, then put the outside light on the lighting system then remove the double socket and replace it with a fuse spur to a single socket for the washing machine.

Do you agreed with above? I will supply some photos in a few months time ( when it warmer )

Also I found the CU has only got four way rewireable fuse for lighting, immerison, cooker and ring main. I have replace all the fuse with MCB. But I am confused as to why there was only one fuse for ring main for 3 bed house? How many sockets should it be use on on ring?

Thanks

Dan

 

[securespark]

You notified the BCO?

 

[sparkyspike]

Is the double socket for the washing machine directly on a ring?

You'll need RCD protection for the cooker circuit.

The maximum floor area for a ring final circuit is 100sqm, regardless of the number of sockets.

The work is notifiable.

Otherwise, you have the right idea with what you want to do - except you should be able to isolate the washing machine without pulling it out. Either move the socket outlet to an accessible point (fcu not required if it's directly on the ring, or a single spur), or fit a fcu above.

 

[stardanny]

Yes, double socket for w/m is on ring main.

I can move the fcu to above work top ( sink is 4 foots away ) and add a unswitch socket below for w/m.

How do you mean, Notifiable? Is this someone I have to let them know what I am doing? Why does they mind their own business?

Hmm, Rcd for cooker? There is a RCD on meter tails to CU. Will that do? just till the CU to be replace at a later stage.


Is BCO a Building Control officer? Thought he do planning control?

 

[ericmark]

The consumer unit if feed from a separate RCD is likely to be 100ma and all new circuits with sockets or unprotected wires buried in walls now need 30ma RCD protection.
The Labour government in 2004 introduced Part P another stealth tax which stops sparks who work an commercial from doing domestic to get a few extra bob tax free. It also stops the DIY man or lines the pockets of building control with absorbent fees.
Not all work requires notifying but kitchens, bathrooms, and outside stuff does.
It has to be fair made the trade a lot better as the overseeing bodies do check on their members work now and no longer can people claim to be electricians when they haven't a clue.
But unlike gas which only controls those people who charge for the work they do the Part P covers all.
The idea is the LABC take over the responsibility for site safety and monitor the work are different stages when done by DIY people but in reality it is just another money making exercise and costs the same for full house re-wire as to fit an extension lead in a kitchen if the cable is clipped up out of the way.
But if you don't clip it up out of harms way you don't need Part P. May have been a good idea but very bad implementation for DIY side.
But if you read some of the questions on forums like this then maybe it is needed!
Eric

 

[Taylortwocities]

Ericmark has made some personal viewpoints.

However, it is law that the work is notified if its work in a kitchen (otherplaces too). Read this before you go any further //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part_p:diy_electrical_work_and_the_law

If you dont do it right then the buyer's side will ask some tricky questions if you come to sell the house later.

 

[flameport]

Is BCO a Building Control officer? Thought he do planning control?

Yes, building control officers. They deal with building control (compliance with building regulations).
Planning is something completely different - although it is likely that both building control and planning will be involved on works such as extensions.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The Labour government in 2004 introduced Part P

NICEIC and ECA had been lobbying for it for decades - please explain the relevance of the party which happened to be in charge at the time.

another stealth tax

It's not a stealth tax.

If you believe it is, please explain how the revenue from scheme organisers registration fees finds its way into the Government's coffers.

which stops sparks who work an commercial from doing domestic to get a few extra bob tax free.

Please explain why you think it reasonable that commercial electricians should be allowed to steal from the taxpayer.

It has to be fair made the trade a lot better as the overseeing bodies do check on their members work now and no longer can people claim to be electricians when they haven't a clue.

Please explain how NICEIC etc calling people who've managed to limp through a 5-day Domestic Installer course electricians has made the trade a lot better.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How do you mean, Notifiable? Is this someone I have to let them know what I am doing? Why does they mind their own business?
.
.
Is BCO a Building Control officer? Thought he do planning control?

Why are you now pretending you don't know about this?

Are you aware of part P of the building regulations?

Yes, I am aware of a part P regulation. I am a plumber so I know about it.

Tw@.

 

[Stoday]

Ericmark, who is concerned about the pockets of building control being lined with "absorbent fees", is at a disadvantage, not being as articulate as BAS. Nevertheless, he has I think, been somewhat unfairly castigated.

The Labour government in 2004 introduced Part P

NICEIC and ECA had been lobbying for it for decades - please explain the relevance of the party which happened to be in charge at the time.

It was the Labour government that made the legislation; the previous Tory government did nothing even though it received the same lobbying as did Labour.

another stealth tax

It's not a stealth tax.

If you believe it is, please explain how the revenue from scheme organisers registration fees finds its way into the Government's coffers.

That only applies if you adopt BAS's implied definition of tax — that taxes are only charged by a government. A wider definition of a tax is a charge on a job that does nothing to contribute to it. Ergo, part P creates a tax.

which stops sparks who work an commercial from doing domestic to get a few extra bob tax free.

Please explain why you think it reasonable that commercial electricians should be allowed to steal from the taxpayer.

Ericmark said no such thing. He merely commented on one of the results of the introduction of part P.

It has to be fair made the trade a lot better as the overseeing bodies do check on their members work now and no longer can people claim to be electricians when they haven't a clue.

Please explain how NICEIC etc calling people who've managed to limp through a 5-day Domestic Installer course electricians has made the trade a lot better.

They have more knowledge than would have been the case without part P when they would have had no formal training whatsoever.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It was the Labour government that made the legislation; the previous Tory government did nothing even though it received the same lobbying as did Labour.

So is it a party political issue?

Do objections to Part P stem from rational ones based on its nature, or are they ideological ones?

Would ericmark be more in favour of Part P if it had been a Conservative government which had introduced it?

In short what is the relevance to Eric of the party which happened to be in charge at the time?

Why did he write "The Labour government in 2004 introduced Part P..." rather than just "The government in 2004 introduced Part P..."?

That only applies if you adopt BAS's implied definition of tax — that taxes are only charged by a government.

That's what my dictionary explicitly says too...

A wider definition of a tax is a charge on a job that does nothing to contribute to it. Ergo, part P creates a tax.

Wider maybe.

But incorrect.

Ericmark said no such thing. He merely commented on one of the results of the introduction of part P.

I don't think that "another stealth tax which stops sparks who work an commercial from doing domestic to get a few extra bob tax free" reads as if he sees this as a beneficial or desirable result.

They have more knowledge than would have been the case without part P when they would have had no formal training whatsoever.

They do, but is a customer's search for a competent electrician aided by the fact that NICEIC etc present them as being equal to the traditional "fully qualified electrician"? Before Part P, would they have entertained the notion of registering someone who said "I've done a 5 day course"?

 

[stardanny]

How do you mean, Notifiable? Is this someone I have to let them know what I am doing? Why does they mind their own business?
.
.
Is BCO a Building Control officer? Thought he do planning control?

Why are you now pretending you don't know about this?

Are you aware of part P of the building regulations?

Yes, I am aware of a part P regulation. I am a plumber so I know about it.

Tw@.

I can be a tw@ but it would be helpful to know which one it need to be notifiable!?!
I do know about bathroom electrical work. This is my job. I don't normally doing electrical work. I'm doing this for my family. I don't see the point in tell them what I am doing if I don't sell house.

To all Sparky, would you notified them if you install your own electric shower?

Dan.

 

[Taylortwocities]

To all Sparky, would you notified them if you install your own electric shower?

I do a fair bit of work with the local estate agents.

Currently I am aware of there are three properties that would have sold by now but the buyer's surveyor has identified recent electrical work.

They want to have the Electrical Installation Certificates that were provided by the installing electrician and the Completion Certificate that confirms that the electrical works were completed in accordance with Parts 4 & 7 of the Building Regulations; and that the works were properly notified to the Local Authority.

So, absolutely yes, I would notify any work that I did in my property - or anybody elses!

 

[ebee]

Part P was a wonderfull idea.
It was the Bees Knees.
It has given status to the competent and driven out the incompetent.
It has acheived its goal and now we are all on a level playingfield.
Oh Yes happy birthday Part P is now int its 5th year !

 

[Taylortwocities]

ebee. Pathos indeed!

PS Can I have some of whatever it is that you're smoking?