Does part "P" include toilet room with basin?

[Brianno6]

Hi all
Demolished a lean-to and building a new extension, bedroom with separate toilet room with basin, have insulated the existing "tails" of socket/light cables ready for new connections, this week B. Control confirmed my plan (Permitted development) to carry on, however they have interpreted the application as Bedroom/ Bathroom and hint of part "P", BS 7671 certificate, would this be right? Thanks for any help

 

[JohnD]

A bathroom is a room with a fixed bath or shower. Zones are defined by distance from the bath or shower.

You do not mention a bath or shower.

If your room has no fixed bath or shower it is not a bathroom and it is impossible to draw zones in it.

Part P covers lots of electrical work, and defines which of that work is not notifiable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No, Part P has nothing to do with notification.

This is Part P:



It says nothing about notifying.

Part P applies to everything, be it notifiable or non-notifiable.

Schedule 4 defines what is not notifiable.

 

[Brianno6]

Thank you both for your reply, there will be no bath or shower in the room with toilet, only a wash basin, on a sketch of the planned extension I have pointed this out, it is the reply to go ahead with the work that states "Bedroom and Bathroom extension, at the bottom of the letter it states:- "All electrical work required to meet the requirement of part p (Electrical safety) must be designed, installed, inspected and tested by a person competent to do so. Prior to completion the Council should be satisfied that part P has been complied with. This may require an appropriate BS 7671 electrical installation certificate to be issued for the work by a person competent to do so." I am competent enough to install a couple of ceiling roses, sockets and switches, and as I have mentioned before there are cables from the old lean-to needing junction boxes to connect, can I go ahead and fix and do I need a qualified electrician to test my work? thanks again for your help

 

[ericmark]

There seems to be confusion between notifiable under part P and having to comply with part P.

The area you refer to would only need notification if it includes new circuits. Oddly the definition of a new circuit differs from part P and BS7671. With BS7671 a fused connection unit would form a new circuit but with part P it seems this is not considered as a new circuit.

It would seem part P was written by non electrical people and so a utility room although having the same risks as a kitchen does not require notification under part P. Why having a food perpetration area makes it more dangerous I don't know. To me a room with washing machine, tumble drier and sink is as dangerous as a room with a cooker but it seems the writers of regulations did not take that view.

The writers only said you did not need to notify they don't say you don't have to comply. In real terms this means anywhere in the house ALL electrical work should have an installation or minor works certificate.

 

[EFLImpudence]

You mustn't keep thinking the regulations should make sense and be logical.

 

[flameport]

The electrical work if done separately is not notifiable.
However the building of the extension and installation of a toilet IS notifiable, and as you already have the requirements from the council, presumably has been notified already anyway.

The question as to whether you can do the electrical work yourself has been answered in the information you already have.

All electrical work required to meet the requirement of part p (Electrical safety) must be designed, installed, inspected and tested by a person competent to do so.

I am competent enough to install a couple of ceiling roses, sockets and switches,

You are missing designing, inspecting and testing, so you will need to get someone to do that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

More confusion:

this week B. Control confirmed my plan (Permitted development) to carry on

Permitted Development is to do with Planning Permission.

Nothing to do with Building Regulations.

The Planning and Building Control departments at the council are two separate entities concerned with two separate things.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It would seem part P was written by non electrical people and so a utility room although having the same risks as a kitchen does not require notification under part P. Why having a food perpetration area makes it more dangerous I don't know. To me a room with washing machine, tumble drier and sink is as dangerous as a room with a cooker but it seems the writers of regulations did not take that view.

As the whole thing was designed to be a sort of semi-closed-shop, jobs protection scheme, it's not surprising that there are illogicalities like that.

It wasn't designed to address electrical risks, it was designed to address revenue opportunities.

Everyone has a kitchen and the electricians thought it would be a whizzo idea if they were the only ones allowed to do electrical work in them. Far, far fewer people have utility rooms, and in all the trouser-tenting excitement of thinking that they might be about to board a Corgi-like gravy train, utility rooms got overlooked.

No idea how accurate this is, but the essence of it makes sense:

Why do you think that Part P classes kitchens along with bathrooms even though the Wiring Regulations don't?

Yes I wondered that so I asked someone that was involved. You are right to assert that they wanted to encompass kitchen fitters, etc. However, the kitchen was apparently a last minute inclusion because the fledgling scheme providers (FSPs) had forgotten it .

The story goes something like - FSPs to JP (John Prescott) - "Here John we forgot kitchens and we need to include them so that we can control the kitchen fitters". JP - (irritated because this is yet another last minute modification) "alright kitchens are in, but that is the last change."

Sometime later the FSPs realise that they have also forgotten utility rooms, and that these are very like kitchens. "Here John what about utility rooms." JP - "have you seen my big clunking fist"

I did ask what attribute of a kitchen separated it from a utility room - the answer being that food is prepared in a kitchen . This opens up all sorts of possible loop holes