Dovetails - Trend CJD 300 Jig and De Walt DW615 Router

[ziggy1979]

Hi All

I am a complete beginner and wanted to try to start woodworking by building a console table.

The table will have two drawers and a shelf about 4" from the floor.

I have two problems:

1. I just bought a DW615 and Trend CDJ dovetail jig. However, I think I underestimated how difficult these might be to use (received them yesterday and was kind of overwhelmed by the Trend manual). I was wondering whether you could give me some advice on how to set it up and get to dovetailing accurate joints (in simple terms)!!! Please!!!

2. I would like to notch out the inside corners of the table's legs so that the bottom shelf (18mm oak veneered mdf) can slot into them. I thought i would need to notch out a height of 18mm and depth of about 1".. Can someone please advise on the best way to do this? I thought maybe using a straight cutter on the router but given that the legs are costing about £15/metre length I wanted to see what advice you guys had.

Thanks a lot for all your help!!!

 

[Scrit]

Hi Ziggy

What sort of console table are you building? By that I mean will it have individual legs, like this one:

or are you using solid end panels to form the uprights? Console tables come in all sorts of shapes, sizes and structures so it's impossible from what you've given to figure out what you are trying to achieve. If you'll let me know I (or someone else) can give a more concise answer to your question.

As far as the dovetailing jig goes, I'm not familiar with that model, but I'd suggest taking a look at this site to see a dovetail jig and router being used "in anger". OK, so it's not the Trend jig, but all these jigs work in pretty much the same way. The only fiddly thing to overcome setting up a jig is making the offset allowance between the side and front parts and getting the depth of cut right. Why not just get some cheap pre-planed pine and practice making a box up before you start cutting your expensive wood?

Scrit

 

[big-all]

hhheeelllooo ziggy1979 and welcome

blimey talk about the deep end

you wan't to drive and your first lesson is a contraflow on a motorway

now if you have the basic woodwork skills your half way there

then all you need do is practice practice practice

now as scrit says you need to practice on a different project thats less important or scraps of wood

you should only attempt your table when you are fully happy to do the proccess or have the skills to repair any mistakes or the time to remake the component

good luck

 

[ziggy1979]

Thanks for your replies guys.

I know its a tall order to start off doing things like dovetail joints and console tables but we've all gotta start somewhere ... I must admit i'm from the school of thought where you swim coz if not you'll drown! However, I'm not naive and you're both absolutely right ... there is no way this is going to be easy or perfect if I just go ahead and do it so I will be practicing for a while.

Scrit, the picture of the table you posted is exactly what I'm hoping to achieve. Only that the drawers will be cut out of a front panel with two letterbox holes (i hope thats clear enough). What's the best way of doing this? I'd thought drill small hole and then jigsaw with a guide to keep it straight.

The only other differences would be a slight overhang on the top and a solid, rather than slatted bottom shelf. I would like to notch out the inside corners of the four legs to slide the bottom shelf into. Is this a wise thing to do? And if so, what's the best way to go about it - straight cutter on the router perhaps and then chisel?

Thanks for your help guys ... it'll be a couple of weeks before I'm done practising but i'll keep you posted!

 

[Jasonb]

The best way to do the draws and have the grain matching all the way through is to cut the rail into three along its length, then cut the center section into five pieces. You then glue it back together leaving the two bits for the draw fronts out. The draw fronts will need a little of their height to allow for the saw kerfs.

The sides of this table were done this way

For the shelf you would be better fitting narrow stretcher rails all round using mortice & tennon joints, the shelf could then lay onto this (notch out the four corners) and be retailed with screws in elongated holes up through the rails.

Jason

 

[Scrit]

Scrit, the picture of the table you posted is exactly what I'm hoping to achieve. Only that the drawers will be cut out of a front panel with two letterbox holes (i hope thats clear enough). What's the best way of doing this? I'd thought drill small hole and then jigsaw with a guide to keep it straight.

Actually Ziggy that's completely the wrong way of going about it. The frame below the table top is traditionally made-up from flat members and the drawers are built into a sort of box structure, a bit like this:

OK, so in a traditional table these elements would be smaller and you'd have narrow rails at the front and rear instead of flat slabs, but the fundamentals are the same. Build a box like this from 5 parts with a divider to separate and guide the drawer boxes and put a back on the this box and that's the top of your table made. If you want an overhanging top this is best added when you've built the rest of the table.

The legs (assuming they are solid wood) can be halved and then screwed from the inside of your top box to support the top of the table:

but the bottom of the console table I showed actually has a solid wood framework with either mortice and tenon joints or (for production work) dowel joints. The simplest way to make this framework is to use something like the bare-faced mortise and tenon like this:

The shelf and top are then just pieces of sheet material supported on the lower framework and top box respectively.

I would like to notch out the inside corners of the four legs to slide the bottom shelf into. Is this a wise thing to do? And if so, what's the best way to go about it - straight cutter on the router perhaps and then chisel?

No. Timber and sheet materials, such as MDF, do not react in the same way to changes to temperature, air humidity and trying to notch out the legs to take a board shelf will result in a failed joints sooner or later. In addition a board without the support of rails will potentially droop under its own weight, let alone when any load is applied.

Scrit

 

[Jasonb]

Actually Ziggy that's completely the wrong way of going about it. Scrit

Have to disagree with you there scrit.

Many tables are made with the two ends and back as deep rails fixed with M&T joints, at the front th erail below the draws would again be fixed with M&T joints and the top rail joined into the top of the legs with a dovetail joint. Central divider would again be M&T and you would have draw runners and kickers as required running front to back.

Not the best picture but I will see if I can find a better one.

Jason

 

[Scrit]

I feel the problem is that there is a skills gap to overcome and I'm not so sure that an inexperienced woodworker who's never built a frame structure would be able to accomplish this without some disappointment in terms of fit and finish and that's what I was trying to avoid. We both know that a rail/leg dovetail is not readily achievable with a router and cutter (without some extra jigging) and that a degree of handwork skill is required. Assuming that the structure I was proposing is being made from veneered MDF or the like it can be made to look quite like a single piece by the simple expedient of cross-banding the uprights - which I reckon would be easier for a beginner to achieve than (as I think the OP was implying) plunge cutting and trying to get the drawer fronts out of the same piece as the upper rails. Were I making the piece out of solid I'd probably not look at the approach I suggested and I'd also be making traditional dovetailed-in front/rear rails, but even then the divider would have vertical grain unless I chose to cross band it, however that's possibly getting a bit out of reach on a first project.

Scrit

 

[Jasonb]

I have reread scrits post and tend to agree with him.

Ziggy Do you propose to have the two draws approx the full width of the front rail in which case scrits method or the traditional method will be fine. If you want the draws to be shorter with larger gaps inbetween then my cutting into 3 & 5 will possibly be better as it still only needs M&T joints between rail & legs.

Also if you have lower stretchers to support the shelf the dovetailed joint is not as critical as ther is less risk of the top joint comming apart if a leg is pushed inwards.

Here is a better pic of the traditional joint methods, hope it does not put you off

Jason

 

[ziggy1979]

Oh no! What am I about to put myself through!

Thanks for your advice guys just a couple more questions:

1. Can I use dowels rather than M&T joints (e.g. to join the legs to the top front, back and sides and to the battens on which the slef will sit) as i think it will be easier for me to do these. It not, how do you suggest i practice M&T joints so that they line up on all sides of the table.

2. Ideally I would like to have a wider separation between the two drawers (say 1.5" between the leg and the drawer and 1.5" between each drawer. Other than the fact that its probably incredibly difficult to plunge cut two holes for the drawers from one piece, is there any other reason why i shouldn't try doing this (e.g. will it make the table flimsier in any way)? I thought it could be made easier using a router jig like the one Trend has to cut out for letter boxes in doors.

Once again thanks for all your help. I must admit that after your advice and pictures I am pretty overwhelmed!!! But I will continue to practice until I feel comfortable to start on it. In the meantime, all your advice is much appreciated!!!

Thanks.

 

[Jasonb]

There is no reason why you can't use dowels but you will need to make a simple jig to ensure the holes line up and are all set back an equal distance from the table leg/rail edge.

You should be able to use the router to cut the mortices in the legs, if you use the fence that comes with the router you can set this to make sure the mortice if the same distance from the leg edge, or make a simple template and use the router in conjunction with a guide bush.

You could cut the draws using a rectangular template, it would be best to remove most of the waste with a jigsaw then tidy up the cut with the router, you will then just have to square up the corners with a router. I don't see it being much weaker than separate top & bottom rails on the draw side of the table.

Jason

 

[gregers]

better idea,

just buy 1

that way you wont waste the wood when you make a mistake,and you wont lose your rag when you do,fair play if you do that this on but as allready said by others its a big ask if youve never done anything like this before.