Downsizing

[Basecoat]

Hi All

Advice please to help me choose a new mid range combi boiler.

I am downsizing to a smaller den. Circumstances not choice. My new place a two bedroom one bathroom back to back property has an old Ariston combi. It finally gave up the ghost yesterday. Died of old age.
Near the boiler there are two mother boards and eight fuses. This indicates this boiler has been problematic.

Personally I prefer Vaillant having had one 14 years very little trouble. Contacted two boiler installers. One recommended vokera Excel. The other "there are so many on the market cheap and cheerful ones and the expensive fit and forget ones. I have moved in with my son until new boiler is installed.

The warranties 5year with Vokera and 5year with vaillant extended to 7 years if boiler is fitted by vaillant advance installers. I am told these warranties are a gimmick in that they will find some thing to blame the owner for faults.

What are the mid range reliable combis these days. What is ERP. Will a non ERP boiler do or not.
Thank you in advance. basecoat.

 

[dilalio]

Look at Intergas and decide for yourself.

ERP...
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/installers/services-and-support/erp-directive/index.en_gb.html

 

[vulcancontinental]

There are no fit and forget boilers, now they are condensers they need better servicing than ever. The Excel is a stripped down Vokera Vision (7 year warranty) made solely for Plumb Centre. The Vision would cost about 170 more for the rear flue option, integral timer, filling loop and longer warranty. Unless things have changed the Excel is two years warranty. I work for Vokera but deliberately keep away from the sales and promotions side.

ErP is an efficiency rating for appliances and system packages. For the appliance it means the documentaion will tell you whether it is 90-94% seasonal efficiency for heating and there's a sticker like on fridges that is supplied with the boiler. It will be fitted with a very low electrical consumption circulator. The installer, if he sells you a thermostat and the boiler at the same time should provide you with a second sticker or fiche, that is the ErP package fiche which will grade the combined efficiency of the boiler and the control you have fitted. All boilers you can buy will be A rated efficviency, boiler plus control type up to 97% is an A rated package. 98% and above is an A+ package. Different controls types add different uplift figures to the boilers seasonal heating efficiency from 1% to 5%

Presently I would plumb for a Vokera Unica i 32 (7 yeear warranty, more expensive than the Vision, different heat exchanger) and the BeSMART modulating thermostat and app (£125) those two can give you the A+ package cheaper than I think anything else on the market.

If you want the warranty honoured get it installed correctly, make sure the installer completes the benchmark and get it serviced annually making sure the installer completes the service log, this is the same for any boiler.

 

[Basecoat]

There are no fit and forget boilers, now they are condensers they need better servicing than ever. The Excel is a stripped down Vokera Vision (7 year warranty) made solely for Plumb Centre. The Vision would cost about 170 more for the rear flue option, integral timer, filling loop and longer warranty. Unless things have changed the Excel is two years warranty. I work for Vokera but deliberately keep away from the sales and promotions side.

ErP is an efficiency rating for appliances and system packages. For the appliance it means the documentaion will tell you whether it is 90-94% seasonal efficiency for heating and there's a sticker like on fridges that is supplied with the boiler. It will be fitted with a very low electrical consumption circulator. The installer, if he sells you a thermostat and the boiler at the same time should provide you with a second sticker or fiche, that is the ErP package fiche which will grade the combined efficiency of the boiler and the control you have fitted. All boilers you can buy will be A rated efficviency, boiler plus control type up to 97% is an A rated package. 98% and above is an A+ package. Different controls types add different uplift figures to the boilers seasonal heating efficiency from 1% to 5%

Presently I would plumb for a Vokera Unica i 32 (7 yeear warranty, more expensive than the Vision, different heat exchanger) and the BeSMART modulating thermostat and app (£125) those two can give you the A+ package cheaper than I think anything else on the market.

If you want the warranty honoured get it installed correctly, make sure the installer completes the benchmark and get it serviced annually making sure the installer completes the service log, this is the same for any boiler.

Thank you vulcancontinental for quick response. I shall look at Vokera unica i. This person I have known for quite some time suggested I go for Vokera Excel. He said he fits these boilers regularly. You are right about the Easi- Heat plus and Excel boilers are sold through plumbing & heating merchands. A local building supplies has offered me Easi-Heat plus 29kw boiler complete with flue for £505.00. I am led to believe Vokera has come a long way. I am not sure though. The other person who suggested fit & forget boilers is not compatible with my beliefs of Honesty.

 

[Basecoat]

Look at Intergas and decide for yourself.

ERP...
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/installers/services-and-support/erp-directive/index.en_gb.html

Hi dilalio thanks for your response. An old buddy of mine suggested intergas boilers are simple not having complicated parts. The vaillant ecotec pro 28 was appealing to me until I found out that it no longer has a mechanical pressure guage but build in the interface. At my age electronics scare me. Thanks for clarifying the ERP directive. I have asked my son to look at intergas boilers.

 

[dilalio]

Search this forum for Intergas... You'll find plenty of threads and supporters of the brand

 

[vulcancontinental]

Look at Intergas and decide for yourself.

ERP...
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/installers/services-and-support/erp-directive/index.en_gb.html

Hi dilalio thanks for your response. An old buddy of mine suggested intergas boilers are simple not having complicated parts. The vaillant ecotec pro 28 was appealing to me until I found out that it no longer has a mechanical pressure guage but build in the interface. At my age electronics scare me. Thanks for clarifying the ERP directive. I have asked my son to look at intergas boilers.

I keep hinting we should put a transducer in the cheaper Vokera's to show the pressure on the display, only our top of the range boiler has that. A transducer gives you system pressure on the BeSMART app (we do put a mechanical gauge in as well when we use a transducer).

BTW the Intergas works well with BeSMART also.

 

[petit_pablo]

I'd chuck an ideal logic in personally.

 

[Basecoat]

Look at Intergas and decide for yourself.

ERP...
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/installers/services-and-support/erp-directive/index.en_gb.html

Hi dilalio thanks for your response. An old buddy of mine suggested intergas boilers are simple not having complicated parts. The vaillant ecotec pro 28 was appealing to me until I found out that it no longer has a mechanical pressure guage but build in the interface. At my age electronics scare me. Thanks for clarifying the ERP directive. I have asked my son to look at intergas boilers.

I keep hinting we should put a transducer in the cheaper Vokera's to show the pressure on the display, only our top of the range boiler has that. A transducer gives you system pressure on the BeSMART app (we do put a mechanical gauge in as well when we use a transducer).

BTW the Intergas works well with BeSMART also.

Hi vulcancontinental
My son had looked at unica i and vision C boilers. I am not keen on digital interface but my son mentioned he has seen your video demonstrating Vision C on youtube. He appears to be leaning towards it. He tells me once the boiler is set up correctly by the installer like yourself then it should be OK. There is little bit more to pay but Vision C is a better buy I am led to believe. No machinery is without faults in some form or another some appear early some appear later. Just had my car through MOT 2 weeks back. Yesterday I noticed a suspension knock coming from front O/S. Can't blame jerry for it. It wasn't there at MOT but has appeared now. Thats how it is.

 

[vulcancontinental]

The boilers are essentially the same, you pay extra for the integral clock, filling loop, rear flue option and Warranty. The digital interface gives you alarms and fault memory so I think it's worth it. If you prefer a room thermostat timer set the onboard timer to constant, that way you don't lose the other features.

The installer has to be be an Affinity installer but that simply means he has to register it online, we pay the notification fee to Gas Safe. 7 years if Affinity, 5 years if not. He gets some sort of points worth money but not a lot. I still do the odd job for old customers and don't bother with the points.

Same PCB as the Unica so if you use the BeSMART controller you will have the boiler fascia controls on your phone and alarm and reset option although with your dislike of the digital interface that may not be attractive to you.

 

[Basecoat]

The boilers are essentially the same, you pay extra for the integral clock, filling loop, rear flue option and Warranty. The digital interface gives you alarms and fault memory so I think it's worth it. If you prefer a room thermostat timer set the onboard timer to constant, that way you don't lose the other features.

The installer has to be be an Affinity installer but that simply means he has to register it online, we pay the notification fee to Gas Safe. 7 years if Affinity, 5 years if not. He gets some sort of points worth money but not a lot. I still do the odd job for old customers and don't bother with the points.

Same PCB as the Unica so if you use the BeSMART controller you will have the boiler fascia controls on your phone and alarm and reset option although with your dislike of the digital interface that may not be attractive to you.[/QUOTE

Hi vulcancontinental thanks for your rapid response. The problem is I had moved into an old back to back property having a celler (these days referred to as basement) that is where the old boiler is installed and new will go in the same location. I am not moving back in until I have a new boiler installed. I have seen your video on you tube where you clearly show the boiler controls. I am a little confused as to do I need to opt for separate timer (prefer in living room/kitchen). Can I opt for aftermarket brands rather than vokera which are a bit pricy. My semi-detach have siemens timer and honeywell thermostat (work amazingly well). Please advise what set up would be beneficial to me. To be honest I dislike going into dark hole (celler) even though its well lit up. One installer quoted me £250 for installation when I question him about the controls he has not returned. Another installer wanted to know why do I need additional controls. He suggested I shouldn't opt for remote controls. BTW is this boiler compatible with remote timer & stat. I have contacted another installer ( a young lady) ex BG now freelance heating engineer she appears to be well spoken and seems to know boilers quite well. Want know for certain until she surveys and tells me what is doable. With your assistance I am preparing myself to ask the right questions. I am willing to pay for their service but I want honest service. Thanks in advance.

 

[vulcancontinental]

The Vision comes with a time clock for the heating which can be programmed in half hour increments and a wireless room thermostat can be connected to a Live and Neutral and two room stat terminals in the boiler controls box, that is how it is intended it be used. If you do not want to use the integral timer you can leave it set to 24 hours a day and in place of the basic Vokera room thermostat (£45) use another brand connected into the switched contacts within the boiler control box. The one I mentioned (£125 BeSMART) is the top of the range but that gives you a lot more options that you might not want. Just make sure that whatever brand you use is wired voltage free (the installer will know what that means).

Ring sales 01727 744031 and they will find a couple of approved installer in the area who will be able to offer the longer warranties.

Hope this helps.