Drive yourself/take a taxi to hospital in an emergency

[Harry Bloomfield]

BBC is suggesting that to avoid the ambulance wait, that in an emergency you should make your own way to hospital. I cannot really see how that helps....

The shortage of ambulances is predominantly due to ambulances stood outside A&E, containing patients having to wait to get into A&E. Driving yourself in an emergency is extremely risky, if you are genuinely feeling ill. If I were a taxi driver, I wouldn't really want to be taking the responsibility of ferrying someone who was ill to hospital. However in both cases, what does it gain you? You still cannot get yourself dealt with by A&E any quicker.

I have twice driven myself to A&E. The first time when I ran an electric saw up my finger, no problem, I was able to bandage it enough drive OK, plus park and walk when I got there.

The second time was a nightmare. I had managed to tear a muscle in my left leg, was unable to bear any weight on it at all. Luckily I had an automatic Granada. I rang the small local hospital, which was quiet on a Sunday, explained I would need to abandon my car near the entrance and need a wheel chair to ferry me in - or I would have to have an ambulance, their choice. They agreed to my suggestion of making my own way there.

I arrived there, absolutely loads of room to park outside A&E, so put the car in a corner out the way, after catching someone's attention to get a wheelchair to me. No wheelchair turned up, so I had to ring and ask them to send one out to me. In the meantime a jobsworth came out, demanding I park in the car park 100 yards away - I lost my temper trying to explain to him why I was unable to comply. His answer was that if I couldn't walk, I shouldn't be driving, what if they had an emergency filling the space with ambulances.

Eventually a wheelchair turned up, one of those with the four tiny wheels and they got me into the waiting room. When my turn came to be seen, none of the staff was willing to push me in, so I had to struggle to reach down to turn the tiny wheels, or go in on my back side. Staff, plenty of those around stood watching, were critical of my risking injuring myself further trying to moving the wheelchair with my arms to move the few yards, but none willing to actually help.

Would I make my own way in again - No way!

 

[thomp1983]

When I broke my pelvis in June I was told it was a 5 hour wait for an ambulance and they just told me to stay crumpled up on a cold garage floor in the early evening just as the temperature was dropping.

Fortunately a neighbour is a gp and he rang them and told them I couldn't wait, still took them another hour to turn up by which point I'd dragged myself up onto my good leg and a crutch and was slowly making my way to lying down in the back of my estate where my wife would of driven me.

It's an absolute shambles the state of waiting times and I'm sure there's probably alot to do with politics and not just a lack beds themselves

 

[Old Salt]

My son and his partner both work as dispatchers for the ambulance service. They generally have 17 ambulances to work with for the area they manage. In total SCAS covers Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hampshire and Oxfordshire. A total of 3550 square miles. I don't know how many ambulances SCAS have in total but I have seen 20 waiting outside one hospital.

They can arrive on shift and have 3 ambulances at their disposal because of the amount waiting to hand over patients. The problem lies at the hospitals not having sufficient beds, staff and other resources or a lack of process to take these patients and free up the ambulance.

Of course the SCAS could provide more ambulances and the trained staff to man them provided they had the budget.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

The difference as I see it, is that in an ambulance you have trained staff to be with you and take any action that they can, albeit being in the ambulance not the hospital.
In a car you don't have that care and attention but may get into the hospital (waiting area) quicker.
I wonder if they mean, if it's not life threatening, or very serious it may just be quicker, not better, or safer.
Then there comes the issue of what happens if you are involved or cause an accident on the way due to not being fully in charge of the vehicle.
But driving the injured person there may be a sensible option, depending on the circumstances.

None of it takes away the reasons for the ambulances being stuck where they are. That is a political issue ( not 1 simple reason) and needs urgent attention.

As a comparison, it is easy to get an ambulance in usa, if you can afford 1. Many people involved in accidents over there will make their own way in purely because they can't afford the bill. Neither system is ideal currently, but until quite recently our system was working well overall.

 

[thomp1983]

From what I could tell in the time I was in the hospital a big part of the problem is children refusing to look after their parents.

There's a criteria to be met for the safe release of a patient and in several cases on the ward I was in children were telling the nurses they weren't prepared to look after the patient so they had to stay in hospital until they were fit enough to look after themselves.

There almost needs to be a care home system just for patient rehabilitation similar to those set up for injured military personnel to get them out of the hospital wards but provide the required care until they can care for themselves and be returned home

 

[Trazor]

From what I could tell in the time I was in the hospital a big part of the problem is children refusing to look after their parents.

Hopefully pay back will eventually occur, when they need their children's help in the future.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Getting to the stage where the NHS is nearly always in crisis. Blame government policy. Blame too many managers and not enough front line staff. Blame not enough investment. Blame immigrants. Blame whatever the heck you like. At the end of the day, year in year out the NHS appears to be struggling more and more. You'd think by now all the (very well paid) experts would be getting to grips with getting it sorted.

The current situation with ambulance wait times is nothing short of ludicrous. What a farce.

 

[Alec_t]

There almost needs to be a care home system just for patient rehabilitation

There used to be. NHS-run convalescent homes. Now gone, alas.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

They can arrive on shift and have 3 ambulances at their disposal because of the amount waiting to hand over patients. The problem lies at the hospitals not having sufficient beds, staff and other resources or a lack of process to take these patients and free up the ambulance.

My understanding is, years back, many wards had some spare capacity always ready for the unexpected. Even if it was just 3-4 extra beds. Then the 'experts' came in, the time in motion experts, the lean experts, and much if not all spare capacity was done away with. Great. Awesome decision.

I worked as an orderly for a short while decades ago, in the theatre. Late afternoon after all the ops, I'd be responsible for cleaning the theatre areas. In parallel, 2 x cleaners came in, responsible for cleaning the general areas, corridors, offices etc.

The 2 x cleaners had x minutes to clean. This was the time where time in motion / lean experts were coming to the fore. They assessed what the general cleaners were doing and determined it only needed 1 not 2 cleaners. Not only that, they further concluded less time was required for them to complete there tasks.

So it went from something like 2 x cleaners with 90 mins to complete their tasks down to 1 x cleaner and 60 minutes.

 

[Notch7]

Getting to the stage where the NHS is nearly always in crisis. Blame government policy. Blame too many managers and not enough front line staff. Blame not enough investment. Blame immigrants. Blame whatever the heck you like. At the end of the day, year in year out the NHS appears to be struggling more and more. You'd think by now all the (very well paid) experts would be getting to grips with getting it sorted.

The current situation with ambulance wait times is nothing short of ludicrous. What a farce.

the NHS doesn’t have enough money.

because Tory MPs and their mates siphon off the money into their pockets.

private healthcare contracts are just a scam.

 

[Diver Fred]

As with so many issues today - just too many people in the country/planet!

If we want the service levels that we had 60 years ago then we need to stop paying people to breed, pay taxes and spend those taxes at a commensurable level.

 

[Pat ex]

As with so many issues today - just too many people in the country/planet!

It must be hell in Monaco (26,000 per sq kilomter) and Gibraltar. (3,300 per sq kilometer)
UK enjoys just 281 people per sq kilometer.
Sheer luxury!

 

[crystal ball]

BBC is suggesting that to avoid the ambulance wait, that in an emergency you should make your own way to hospital. I cannot really see how that helps....

The shortage of ambulances is predominantly due to ambulances stood outside A&E, containing patients having to wait to get into A&E. Driving yourself in an emergency is extremely risky, if you are genuinely feeling ill. If I were a taxi driver, I wouldn't really want to be taking the responsibility of ferrying someone who was ill to hospital. However in both cases, what does it gain you? You still cannot get yourself dealt with by A&E any quicker.

I have twice driven myself to A&E. The first time when I ran an electric saw up my finger, no problem, I was able to bandage it enough drive OK, plus park and walk when I got there.

The second time was a nightmare. I had managed to tear a muscle in my left leg, was unable to bear any weight on it at all. Luckily I had an automatic Granada. I rang the small local hospital, which was quiet on a Sunday, explained I would need to abandon my car near the entrance and need a wheel chair to ferry me in - or I would have to have an ambulance, their choice. They agreed to my suggestion of making my own way there.

I arrived there, absolutely loads of room to park outside A&E, so put the car in a corner out the way, after catching someone's attention to get a wheelchair to me. No wheelchair turned up, so I had to ring and ask them to send one out to me. In the meantime a jobsworth came out, demanding I park in the car park 100 yards away - I lost my temper trying to explain to him why I was unable to comply. His answer was that if I couldn't walk, I shouldn't be driving, what if they had an emergency filling the space with ambulances.

Eventually a wheelchair turned up, one of those with the four tiny wheels and they got me into the waiting room. When my turn came to be seen, none of the staff was willing to push me in, so I had to struggle to reach down to turn the tiny wheels, or go in on my back side. Staff, plenty of those around stood watching, were critical of my risking injuring myself further trying to moving the wheelchair with my arms to move the few yards, but none willing to actually help.

Would I make my own way in again - No way!

When & where did the BBC suggest this?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

When & where did the BBC suggest this?

It was briefly mentioned this morning, in a program after the news, when I was half watching.

 

[crystal ball]

It was a Doctor speaking on the BBC.