ebay Stoves Newhome dual fuel cooker -what have I done?

[acsl]

Rush of blood at the critical moment often has long-term implications,,,,,
My wife has been asking for a new fridge-freezer and cooker (& sofa etc etc) but since we are doing Xmas this year the first 2 seemed most pressing.
Current cooker is a single electric fan-assisted built-in that was never quite the same after being dropped onto its upper rt corner when being re-fitted.
In order to save money after our extension, I re-fitted the kitchen units and the cooker and so far, they have been OK (ish).
So back to the future. Found a 2nd hand Stoves dual fuel on ebay being torn out of a kitchen not too far from here. Quick measurement identified that 1000mm is the distance of 2 existing units, one of which is under the 4 ring gas hob.
Having bid and won the cooker, it then occurred to me to check the existing cooker power point. Oops; ordinary 13 amp plug only. Consumer board is already overloaded and needs changing after aforementioned extension.
Need some advice here:
Still not yet seen the dreaded cooker, what should I do first?
1 Get electrician in to update consumer board and fit new cooker switch?
2 Collect cooker and assess its usefulness/remaining working life ie get a pro in to do this? Could just put cooker back on ebay and find a new built-in double oven (what my wife wanted).
3 Cost up: new work surfaces, electrician, new splashback and hood.
Will send in photos if this generates any interest,,,,,

Andrew

 

[JohnD]

how many ovens does the new one have?

 

[Donkmeister]

I've got a Stoves Sterling dual-fuel, and when I turn on both ovens it's drawing about 6kW on heating cycle (according to my power monitor). Yours will be about the same.

I think that whichever you go for, it's probably best to get a cooker circuit installed so you aren't limiting your choice of double oven/range oven etc. Are you sure you haven't got one already? Is there any means of isolating your current oven without unplugging it?

 

[acsl]

Thanks for the replies:
The Stoves range is a double oven; one conventional and one fan-assisted with gas rings on top.
The seller has just emailed me to say the plate on the back says "5465W AND 15.8kW" which can't be right. I suspect the former is the true figure especially given the Sterling's 6kW power usage (thanks for that).
My current single fan-assisted oven draws 2kW and is plugged into a simple 13 amp plug. There is no method of turning it off without; pulling the whole unit out of its compartment and pulling out the plug -hardly ideal.
Have arranged to pick up Stoves range on sunday and will store it elsewhere until kitchen ready for it.

Which brings me to the next big problem. We had a nightmare with our builders and one of the many problems we are left with is that our kitchen floor is anything but flat. When refitting the kitchen units I rested the carcasses on a large piece of timber before bolting them all together (the builders had also broken virtually every foot of the units).
The new cooker will mean I will need to unbolt 2x units in the middle of the kitchen which will mean the others will not be secure; I'm not sure what effect this will have on them.
Will the units survive a 3rd move?

Will try and upload some photos today.
A

 

[JohnD]

you are going to have to get your electrician to install a cooker circuit for you. If you like range cookers you may as well get a 45A one which will cost a little more as the cable will be thicker, but gives capacity for a biggish all-electric one. the hob takes much more power than the oven, and as you have a gas hob (which is better) your dual-fuel will take a relatively modest amount of electrical power.

You mentioned your electrical installation is quite old, so it might be worthwhile getting him to install nice new CU with RCBOs, and you can add more circuits to the new CU as and when you are rewired or have extra circuits added, if you get a big one. Big CUs are not much more expensive than little ones as it is mostly a plastic box and some fresh air.

In my kitchen I have two cooker circuits, one on each side of the kitchen, and I think this is excellent, as it means I could re-plan the kitchen and have a cooker on the other side more or less at whim (I have two gas outlets as well). Is your wife prone to whims?

p.s. you can buy new screw-down adjustable legs for kitchen cabinets. The plain ones are quite cheap (40 legs for £20). If you do not have a plinth and want flashy chrome ones they are more expensive (2 legs for £25 ). They are very handy and easy to fit.

http://www.screwfix.com/cats/A326934/Kitchens/Kitchen-Fittings/Cabinet-Fittings

 

[acsl]

Thanks for this.
Very helpful (no, she is not too prone to whims!).
A

 

[JohnD]

that's OK, you can tell us the truth once she stops looking over your shoulder

 

[acsl]

Showing my ignorance here but,,,
Will an electrician be able to wire in a 45A cooker switch from the kitchen/downstairs ring?
I've had a look at the CU and there is a blank fuse space. We do have circuit breakers but I'm sure the electrician who wired in the new extension said there was not enough capacity for the new areas on the Board. I gather he just added a few together,,,,javascript:emoticon('')

Wife truly is "whim-free", though she is a little odd on the exercise front. We both compete in Triathlons but she confessed last night that she always takes the stairs (time permitting). Not so strange, so do I. Then I realised she was talking about the Empress State Building (might have got the name wrong -tall tower in London with revolving roof -Plod are renting it), which is 35-odd floors tall. Apparently last time she was there for training she ran up it in her lunch-break just for fun! She didn't yesterday because she cycled there and back ~50miles round trip, so didn't feel "the need"!!!!!!!!!!javascript:emoticon('')

Finally (must get some work done), I may have sorted the need for a new fridge-freezer; found another site "Fridge engineer" and a quick scan through their previous posts seem to indicate similar problems to ours and a possible solution. Time will tell- Fingers crossed!!javascript:emoticon('')
A

 

[JohnD]

Will an electrician be able to wire in a 45A cooker switch from the kitchen/downstairs ring?

NO

it needs an entire new circuit run directly to the (preferably new) consumer unit. The cable will be a much larger size than is used for the ring.

p.s. when I were a young feller I used to take the stairs to my office, and run down and up a couple of times in my lunch break. This was the 14th floor. What floor does Mrs Acsl run to?

p.p.s. I recommend making her "work harder" when you've got her at home. I like to see a woman working hard.

 

[acsl]

Thought so, hoping there would be an easier (cheaper) solution.
Thinking this through: Would make sense to "run" cable myself under floor, to save his/her labour costs. What size cable do I need? Twin and earth, I presume?

"She" has just got in from picking the kids up from school. Took a chance and walked. Everyone soaked javascript:emoticon('') but happy.
I think ESB is 35 floors or so,,,,,
She is a hard worker. Despite being part-time, she manages to nick more residents of SE london for motoring misdemeanors than (m)any of her colleagues -you can probably guess which speciality,,,
ACSL

 

[Donkmeister]

Thank goodness it's not possible to drive more than 5mph in London or I'd be in deep schtuck...

Saying nothing that hasn't been said here already, but from your description it does sound like you'll need a new circuit run. I'd agree on the suggestion of "get it wired for 45A"... with rising fossil fuel prices and lowering renewables prices, you may decide to go all-electric in the future, then it's much cheaper and less hassle than having it upgraded later. Even me, the man who hates electric hobs will be wiring my kitchen to allow an... erm... electric... hob... YEEEEEURRRK!!!

It certainly couldn't hurt to lift floorboards, drill joists and chase plaster to make a nice easy path for your sparky to fit the cable. Might be best to stop there, rather than run the cable as well. If you go too far then it turns into an issue of notifying BCO and having it tested, which might be more expensive than the labour to just run and terminate the cable!

 

[acsl]

Bumped into Head of estates (I am an poor NHS worker) and he pulled a book from his shelf and decreed that I would need 6mm twin and earth which should give 47amps. Not a clue about such things. Does this sound right.
I might as well run the cable at least to the kitchen and buy and fit the cooker switch. Are there any regs on where the cooker switch should be placed?
Any advice on likely good deals for 6mm twin and earth, consumer units and cooker switches?
As I write this, I am aware I promised photos. Problem there is that "Plod" is in charge of the house camera and it has flat batteries,,,,
I guess they will keep for a while,,
ACSL

 

[alexgray104]

Hi Acsl,

When we were having our kitchen done, our electrician instructed us to get 6mm cable for our new electric cooker, so I would presume this is correct. It was a messy job chasing into 100+ year old plaster, but needed to be done as there was only gas before. Now that we have had an electric one for a little while, I think the gas hob's are a lot better - so much more control, but with these rising fuel bills, it could be a blessing in disguise.

Incidently, we bought a 50m roll of 6mm^2, as it is nice fat cable for other jobs, such as electric showers or running out to extension CU's.

 

[acsl]

Electrician came round late last night to look at work needed to update CU, fit cooker circuit and some other minor jobs.
The good news might be that there may well be an existing 6mm cable left over from an upstairs shower we took out when we did our extension. It terminates only 2m from the likely cooker switch point but I need to pull up some floor boards. The interesting thing is that this cable may well still be live,, This is a 40amp RCB and the electrician did say if there is anything else on this circuit "I will want shooting" (he did the work 5 years ago). So we flicked the RCB off and discovered that the top floor ring is on it,,,,,('')

Meanwhile the CU is indeed not regulation but worse the incoming cable that feeds the house from the mains has been run through the front door-frame into the bottom of the main 100amp fuse. So there is 6 inches of painted 415v cable by the front door, unprotected by any fuse whatsoever. Confess I had not noticed it, but we were trying to sell the house. What if we had and someone had decided to "tidy up" and chopped out that cable not knowing what it was???? ('')
Contacted SeeBoard first thing and they are sending out an engineer today.('')

Electrician thinks the CU work might be ~£400 but was suggesting I ask the engineer whether we can have PME as opposed to TT (don't really know what these are). But apparently the above quote may be more for either because it also appears we have no electrical earth to either our CU or the Gas main.('')

Got to go to work but am home with the kids over the weekend whilst the strife winds up poor old SE london motorists.('')
Will try to send to send photos on sunday.('')
ACSL

 

[Donkmeister]

So in a way, the new cooker is a blessing in disguise!