Electric shock!

[Honeybea]

Hi, I went to fill my dishwasher this morning as normal but as I touched the machine to pull door open I got a very nasty electric shock, it shot through my thumb, up my arm across my shoulders and into my other arm and hurt like hell! It feels like my thumb is now burnt! I have turned it off at the wall. Does anyone know why this would suddenly happen, up until yesterday I was using it fine. Also why didn't the thing kick in that is meant to protect me from getting shocked, I have it on my mains board to prevent things like this happening??

I am too scared to touch it now. Is there something cheap I can buy in the shop that I can touch it with and be safe but it will tell me if the whole machine is live!!

Many thanks for any replies.

 

[JohnD]

Unplug it. Turning off is not enough.

how old is the wiring in your house? More likely you have a wiring fault (a fault in the dishwasher itself is not impossible, but if you are in the UK, correct wiring should prevent you getting a shock).

If you can post some photos of your consumer unit ("fusebox") and the wiring around it, including around the meter, and any green-and-yellow striped wires you can see (there should be one going to the water pipe) that will give us some clues and suggestions.

Were you standing on a wet floor at the time? Or touching other metalwork such as a tap or toaster?

It is highly likely that you are going to need a qualified electrician. You can ask around for recommendations from people you know. Don't rely on advertising websites where people pay to be listed, even (especially) if they are disguised as recommendation or checking websites.

There are several trade associations where members can be listed if they have passed appropriate exams. For example NICEIC but there are others.

If you contact an electrician, before making an appointment, ask what Self Certification Scheme he is a member of. Write it down and look him up on their website. A qualified person will be proud to prove it. A bodger may act offended at your lack of trust. Would you want to travel in a taxi where the driver didn't have a licence?

 

[JohnD]

BTW you may wish to phone the NHS helpline, as the shock went across your body. I believe Electricians are advised to be checked after a shock, as the number of heart attacks is higher in the days following, but this is not something I know about. It might depend on your age and health.

NHS website first aid page just says "Afterwards, seek medical help."

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/first-aid/

p.s.
If you are in a rented property, notify the agent and landlord in writing and keep a dated copy.

Some landlords are very poor on home maintenance, and agents like to say "nobody told us" after an accident, which will be harder if you have done it in writing. They hate being criticised at inquests.

 

[Honeybea]

JohnD thank you for your reply. I was standing on a dry floor, when I first touched the handle of the dishwasher I was ok but it was as a put my thumb on the top of the dishwasher I got the shock, so almost as though one finger was ok but 2 fingers touching the unit was not ok. I'm just going to take pics of my electrics.

 

[JohnD]

can you remember where your other hand was?

the handle might have been plastic. You need to be touching something conductive; usually metal or a wet surface.

 

[bernardgreen]

An electric shock to a person requires two points of contact and that there is a voltage difference between the two points of contact,

up my arm across my shoulders and into my other arm

It is possible that a fault in the dishwasher has caused either the handle or the top surface of the dishwasher to become Live. Another possiblity is a defective appliance such a a kettle on top of the dishwaher has beome Live and this have made the case of the dishwasher Live. ( with a fault that the dishwasher case was not properly Earthed ).

 

[pete50]

Much more importantly why on earth are you mucking about on this forum (or any other for that matter) asking about it. Unplug the damn thing get down down to A&E and get checked then call a competent electrician to check your electrics before you or someone else gets killed.

 

[JohnW2]

BTW you may wish to phone the NHS helpline, as the shock went across your body. I believe Electricians are advised to be checked after a shock, as the number of heart attacks is higher in the days following, but this is not something I know about. It might depend on your age and health. .... NHS website first aid page just says "Afterwards, seek medical help."

It does indeed say that, and that has been 'the advice' for decades - so I suppose the 'sensible' course is to take that advice.

However, I've been on the other side of that fence, and the 'medical help' doesn't really know what they are expected to do. People turn up in A&E after 'recovering from' an electric shock and all one can really do is feel their pulse, listen to their heart and do an ECG - and, unless the person is obviously 'unwell' (unconscious, or with possibly heart-related symptoms), those things are all invariably 'plumb normal' (or, at least, as plumb normal as they were for the person in question prior to their electric shock) ... so the person is 'patted on the head', sent home, and advised to be more careful in future.

Although I don't know the extent of the increased risk, it is indeed true that the risk of heart attacks is greater in the days following an electric shock, but the same is also true following almost any type of significant trauma (including emotional/psychological trauma). The problem in all those cases is that there is almost invariably nothing 'abnormal' that can be detected, even by an ECG, until the moment the heart happens - there are plenty of stories of people who have passed a 'heart check up' with flying colours, only to 'drop dead' from a heart attack on their way home from the check.

So I suppose that the bottom line is that following the NHS advice after one has survived an electric shock is probably 'sensible' ('cautious'), but I don't think people should expect it to actually 'achieve anything' (unless, of course, it reveals some co-incidental pre-existing problem which was there before the electric shock!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[mikeey84]

It does indeed say that, and that has been 'the advice' for decades - so I suppose the 'sensible' course is to take that advice.

However, I've been on the other side of that fence, and the 'medical help' doesn't really know what they are expected to do. People turn up in A&E after 'recovering from' an electric shock and all one can really do is feel their pulse, listen to their heart and do an ECG - and, unless the person is obviously 'unwell' (unconscious, or with possibly heart-related symptoms), those things are all invariably 'plumb normal' (or, at least, as plumb normal as they were for the person in question prior to their electric shock) ... so the person is 'patted on the head', sent home, and advised to be more careful in future.

Although I don't know the extent of the increased risk, it is indeed true that the risk of heart attacks is greater in the days following an electric shock, but the same is also true following almost any type of significant trauma (including emotional/psychological trauma). The problem in all those cases is that there is almost invariably nothing 'abnormal' that can be detected, even by an ECG, until the moment the heart happens - there are plenty of stories of people who have passed a 'heart check up' with flying colours, only to 'drop dead' from a heart attack on their way home from the check.

So I suppose that the bottom line is that following the NHS advice after one has survived an electric shock is probably 'sensible' ('cautious'), but I don't think people should expect it to actually 'achieve anything' (unless, of course, it reveals some co-incidental pre-existing problem which was there before the electric shock!).

Kind Regards, John

The best medical guidance I could find John seems to back up your post up, to a point:

Although cardiac arrhythmias rarely occur after electrical injury, cardiac monitoring is recommended for all patients with documented rhythm disorder, loss of consciousness, or abnormal ECG at admission.

The 3rd if those criteria can only be known by going to A&E and getting an ECG!

 

[sparkwright]

Electric shock has been known to cause problems shortly later afterwards, so best advice can only be get yourself checked out.

A faulty earth connection somewhere may be the problem, but the only sensible advice is get a decent electrician to have a look at it all.

 

[JohnW2]

The best medical guidance I could find John seems to back up your post up, to a point:...

I'm pleased to hear that

... "Although cardiac arrhythmias rarely occur after electrical injury, cardiac monitoring is recommended for all patients with documented rhythm disorder, loss of consciousness, or abnormal ECG at admission.". The 3rd if those criteria can only be known by going to A&E and getting an ECG!

I wouldn't say that that is particularly inconsistent with what I wrote. As I said, my experience is that, unless the patient has "possibly heart-related symptoms" (or is unconscious), their post-electric-shock ECG would almost certainly be 'normal' (for them), the point being that any significant arrhythmia would produce symptoms.

If an electric shock results in an arrhythmia (which it can), that will be 'immediate', and I can think of no real reason why a person should develop an arrhythmia after they had experienced the shock, unless they suffer a heart attack - and that could be days or longer after the event, hence probably long beyond any realistic/practical period of cardiac monitoring.

It may be almost too obvious to need saying, but if a patient presents to A&E following an electric shock has (or has a history of) any significant heart disease (not just a "documented rhythm disorder") they are quite likely to be admitted for monitoring, even if they don't have a "documented rhythm disorder", didn't lose consciousness and have no clinical or ECG abnormalities when seen in A&E.

As I said, I'm in no way discouraging people from following the NHS advice. I'm merely 'warning' them that it will almost inevitably 'achieve nothing' (other than a few hours sitting in a waiting room!), not really even much 'reassurance' - in particular, the fact that they don't have a "documented rhythm disorder", didn't lose consciousness and have no clinical or ECG abnormalities when seen in A&E (and hence are 'sent home') does not in any way alter the fact that they are at increased risk of a heart attack in the following days.

In other words, well-intentioned though it is, a check-up soon after an electric shock (in a person with no ongoing relevant symptoms) unfortunately almost never does anything to reduce the risk of serious problems, potentially including death, occurring in the subsequent days.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Honeybea]

Hi guys, I am fine honestly, my heart has been fine but i am keeping an eye on it. I told my husband what had happened and asked him to get into the back of the cupboard to pull the plug out to disconnect it. I came home last night and he has it on and running a wash through it!! He insists its fine, I don't because that massive vibrations feeling that ran up my arm and across my back hurt like hell and left me with a really sore thumb, but he won't be told. So the machine is now up and running again, I myself and too scared to touch it....I don't think my hubby feels it was the electric shock I am telling him, but he has never listened to me before anyway. I don't feel the bloody thing is safe now, something has happened to it!

 

[JohnD]

how are you getting on with those photos?

 

[Honeybea]

Hi Guys, I lied I am not fine....and I am about to throw my husband out. Just eaten dinner and filled the dishwasher and touched the metal on the door inside, I almost shot across the room, every metal part is LIVE. This shock was even worse than yesterdays as it was all four fingers, its definitely live without a doubt. I am going to be very vigilant with my heart today. But what could suddenly make my dishwasher live, could it be the plug. I've attached photo's of my electric box and wires, my property is rented and everything is modern fuse box wise. The photo's are of my fuse box, my electric meter, the yellow and green wires under my fuse box and the yellow and green wires going to my stock cock.
Yesterday I had my hand on my metal sink when I touched the dishwasher.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Honeybea, did the first shock stop your brain from working.
Its not the plug. Its the dishwashwer. It's faulty, its going to kill you.
Unplug it. do not use it. Call an electrician or appliance repair person.

But I am now wondering if you are just a troll and this is a joke. Nobody could be so stupid as to ignore all the advice and use the dishwasher again.....

MAybe we will see you featured on here Darwin Awards. Chlorinating The Gene Pool.