Electric WET Central heating

[paulandfrodo]

Working on a house grade II listed thatched cottage.

It's currently got storage heaters and economy 7. For various reasons I cannot use Oil. The village has no GAS supply and customer does not want to lug GAS bottles...

I'm looking at going to Economy 10 (comes on cheap 3 times a day) and using Fusion Electric Combination Boiler (www.electric-heatingcompany.co.uk) has anyone used these or similar and have any comments ?

Paul.

 

[Agile]

My friend Paul in France has an on peak 8 kW wet electric boiler in his gite and using UFH.

I dont see how you are going to get the thermal storage on an off peak system unless you are using UFH with a thick floor.

There is no lugging gas bottles if you have a tanker filled LPG installation which everyone else would use.

Tony

 

[digdilem]

Thatched + small village suggests planning issues for large tanks, and this may be the reason for no oil too.

But...

Underground LPG tank? I did the groundwork for my own at home last year as I'm in a National Park (plus I didn't want to look at it). All I've got is a green plastic manhole cover.

There are some restrictions as to closeness to buildings/roads etc - but if there's any chance at all, give the supplier a ring and get it checked out.

If access is an issue, still worth enquiring. Some suppliers may have smaller delivery lorries. The salesman will do a site visit, assess access, location etc etc. No cost.

BTW, IMO avoid Flogas like the plague. I have a huge list of issues with them - siting a tank illegally so no other supplier would take it on, installing substandard pipework which failed and lost an entire tankful of gas (which they wouldn't replace), installing a regulator inside a cavity wall (which later leaked and filled the cavity with gas which seeped into the house), double billing, charging for deliveries not made, etc etc...

Calor, OTOH, have been very good.

 

[digdilem]

If you're set on electric though, an immersion heater, hot water tank and a central heating pump make the basis for a simple all electric wet ch system.

The only problem for that is finding somebody to pay the power bills when they come in :/

 

[gastastic]

Failing all else, he could move in to civilisation? I`ll lend him cutlery.Is this village Royston Vasey? you have to be `local` there you see.

 

[paulandfrodo]

This might well be Royston Vasey, and we don't have street lighting either - it's great. The pub right opposite also helps !

That reminds me, they have just had an underground LPG tank installed, I will have a chat (over a pint) with the landlord and have a look at his system - oh err ! I'll see what he's being charged for supply too.

I won't go for a DIY WET system, as the custom built ones are a lot more efficient (and expensive), but it's a plumb in and forget, just attach flow, return and water inlet.

I can't go down the oil route due to the small and awkward garden to the rear as well as access issues - it's a mid terrace.

We think we have enough clearance on the floor to integrate underfloor heating, which I will probably do, as well as actually put some insulation (allowing for airflow) in the roof spaces.

 

[Onetap]

I'm looking at going to Economy 10 (comes on cheap 3 times a day) and using Fusion Electric Combination Boiler (www.electric-heatingcompany.co.uk) has anyone used these or similar and have any comments ?

Paul.

But why use wet electric heating?

The efficiency is the same since all the heaters use resistance heaters, so why have the added complication of pipes and pumps to distribute the heat when an electric heater in the room would be simpler and cheaper?

Using UFH as a storage heater on Economy 7 would make sense, as would installing a wet system for use in conjunction with solar, gas, oil, solid fuel, ASHP, etc.. The plans don't seem to include any of these, so what is the point?

 

[mickyg]

BTW, IMO avoid Flogas like the plague. I have a huge list of issues with them -

funny you say that as one of my customers is currently taking them to court. For 2-3 years they charged him for anything between 400-450l of LPG. He's since found out his tank only has a capacity of about 350l !

 

[paulandfrodo]

Onetap,

Their are a few reasons behind electric WET. Keep in mind it's my girlfriend who's purchased the house (purchasing)...

I would argue the point that the efficiency is the same. The WET electric system (Fushion 10 Combi) and a storage heater work in VERY different ways.

1. Due to the constrains of the site we cannot go down the Oil/GAS route.
2. The existing old wall heaters look horrible, so, they would need to be replaced anyway (Women!). Actually, they do look quite nasty.
3. The house hot water is currently serviced by (from what I can remember) an old, copper cylinder and no pump (thus gravity). which, well... works.
4. An extension in the future is planned, thus some rework of the hot supply pipe from current cylinder will be required and the gravity system will not be sufficient.

We cannot use Solar (Listed building + Thatch), god it's hard enough getting minor changes through the listed building officer, she would have a heart attach if we asked to drop a few solar panels on the thatch !
We cannot use GAS due to limitations of the site
We cannot use OIL due to limitations of the site
We could use solid fuel based upon replacing the existing open fire with a such a system and integrating it into a heating system. But this would have flue implications. Don't know until I can get a proper look... Equally, want to resist having an enclosed stove system due to heat of flue + thatch
ASHP - 30 deg slope in garden and the area of the garden is too small and triangular

So, the plans would have included other things, but... The house/site does not allow it !!

 

[simond]

An air source heat pump will work very well with UFH and cost you around 3 times less than electrical resistive heating to run.

Capital cost of installation is more though.

You only need a small space for it outside, the good ones are really quiet. We use Mitsubishi's Ecodan but there are other quality makes out there like Nibe.

 

[paulandfrodo]

simond,

Ohh... didn't engage brain... Air Source...

I will look into that. However we will still need something to heat the water up after it has been blended...

My gut feeling is girlfriend won't go for it as they look, err, well, err... And sitting next to a portland stone 1700 thatched cottage... Might even have issues with the Listed Buildings officer... I will ask the LBO.

Can I ask what you paid for your unit - just the unit cost as I would fit it myself.

Paul.

 

[Onetap]

I would argue the point that the efficiency is the same. The WET electric system (Fushion 10 Combi) and a storage heater work in VERY different ways.

We cannot use Solar
We cannot use GAS.
We cannot use OIL.
ASHP - 30 deg slope in garden and the area of the garden is too small and triangular

My point was that, if you can't use the above, why go for an electric wet system? Replace wall heaters; done. I am the world's biggest fan of wet heating systems, within reason.

The efficiency of electric heaters is the same, but you may find other advantages in a wet electric system. I can't see what they are.

 

[Onetap]

I will look into that. However we will still need something to heat the water up after it has been blended...

There are domestic ASHPs that will deliver 70 degC plus. I don't know who makes them.

 

[paulandfrodo]

onetrap...

Now you spell it out, nice and simple...

I can see where you are coming from. And yes, I do agree with what you say. To be honest, with the way she lives her life, she would not have a problem working around using wall mounted heaters & hot water cylinder. She'll just need a pump installed to get a little more flow out of the cylinder. It would certainly be a lot easier for me !

She's got a big old log fire, has just invested in thermals and we also have two big fluffy dogs !

I have considered strapping the big fluffy dogs directly to my body and ignoring heating the house... However, two German Wirehaired Pointer can get really fidgety !

 

[xr4x4]

The efficiency of electric heaters is the same, but you may find other advantages in a wet electric system. I can't see what they are.

controllable heat?