Electrical fault or washing machine

[Jameswren]

Power to our sockets and all lights, except ground floor, keeps cutting out when our washing machine hits spin mode. This is the only time it happens.

I'd assume its the washing machine but it never happened until our electrician did some work in one room (additional sockets).

Is it a coincidence or could it be related to the electrician 's visit? The issue only occurs when the spin cycle starts but it never happened prior to the alterations.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

What type of consumer unit do you have?
I assume with a number of circuits losing power at the same time, that RCD protections is offered to these circuits (or are they all on the same circuit)?
So when you have power loss, do the protective devices trip/blow, if so is it the RCCB (RCD) that is tripping or MCBs/RCBOs//Fuses?
Does the CU have dual or single RCCB (RCD) protection?
Try the appliance with no other load on circuit if possible, see what happens.
If dual RCCBs, and the ground floor sockets are on the other split, try running an extension lead to washer from a ground socket and see if that side then trips, when washer on spin.
A RCCB looks like this and has a test button on it.

Untitled

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 29 Jul 2009
• 13

This is a RCBO

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• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 25 Apr 2012
• 5

This is an MCB

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• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 25 Apr 2012
• 3

It's very likely that you either have a fault on the washer and earth leakage is increased when on spin cycle or could be a build up of earth leakage from a number of appliance being on load at the same time.
Come back with a little more info and answers to above questions, then see if we can then progress in diagnosing the fault.
The new socket, have you got the test results from the installer?
Is this the socket for the washer?

 

[Jameswren]

My knowledge is a bit untechnical so I'll try in layman's terms.

All sockets are on one circuit then the ground floor lights on another and first floor lights on another - when the spin kicks in, everything except the ground floor lights trip and just one switch on the CU flicks.

Pretty certain I turned everything except the washing machine off and it still tripped - it sometimes manages the lowest spin setting but anything else and it's certain to go.

The new sockets are in a different room and not directly related to the washing machine.

The electrician tested the system and said he couldn't find a fault so suggested I get an engineer for the washing machine. I'd rather verify before forking out.

 

[ericmark]

It could be either at fault. The RCD could be doing it's job disconnecting a supply when it detects earth leakage or it could be sensitive to the voltage spikes produced by the washing machine motor. Where motors use brushes the carbon from the brushes can cause tracking and with the shaking of the washing machine this may cause an earth track. But to test you really have to start at the washing machine. It could be just damp of course. The problem is dragging a washing machine out to test it can dislodge the carbon dust so when tested it shows as no fault. Not all washing machines have carbon brushes.

But if you can get the machine out and inspect to see if damp and vacuum any dust clearly power off it may by pure pulling out inspecting, cleaning and drying remove the fault. Taking care not to knock off any wires.

Not all RCD's are the same. Some have a set of warning lights which tell you when the leakage is getting near to the point when it will trip and have special circuits to stop spikes tripping them. The X-Pole is a good example. The other method where a TN supply comes to the house is to use RCBO's instead of a RCD which splits the earth leakage protection into circuits so when it does trip you don't lose everything.

If the washer does have a brushed motor then likely a service will cure it.

 

[Jameswren]

Thanks.

I checked the carbon brushes last night and they are worn but still have lots of life in them - the casings fell apart and there was a lot of powder on them so perhaps they're to blame anyway.

Think it's the engineer route then.

 

[Jameswren]

I'm still getting this issue despite having the carbon brushes replaced and the motor replaced too.

My electrician found no electrical fault with the socket or machine, so I assume it's something to do with the workings of the machine.

When it hit spins, sometimes it loses power. If I turn it back on immediately, it then runs perfectly - same situation, different outcome.

 

[viewer]

No expertise, but had a similar problem with a spin dryer and the fault was a capacitor linked to the motor.

 

[bernardgreen]

Ask the electrician to test the new wiring for a neutral to earth fault.

I'd assume its the washing machine but it never happened until our electrician did some work in one room (additional sockets).

Neutral_Earth_trip

• bernardgreen
• 16 Jan 2011
• 48

The highest current load taken by a washing machine is during the spin up to speed and that current may be enough, when divided as above, to cause the RCD to trip.

 

[Jameswren]

The electrician says: "we tested the live to earth and neutral to earth. There was no fault on the socket circuit".

 

[bernardgreen]

The electrician says: "we tested the live to earth and neutral to earth. There was no fault on the socket circuit".

He needed to test ALL neutrals to earth on all the circuits.
A neutral to earth fault on the lighting circuit may only trip the RCD when there is a large load on a socket on a different circuit.

Some "electricians" are reluctant to test all neutrals as it requires them to disconnect the neutrals from the neutral bar in the consumer unit.

 

[Jameswren]

Gotcha - I'll enquire.

Thank you

 

[swampy2]

Get an electrician with a leakage clamp meter, to test for leakage before washing machine is operating & during wash cycle/spin, you will see if there is any leakage from other appliances(operate them) or if the washing machine is adding or all of the leakage. Also ramp test Rcd to see what its tripping current is.

 

[ericmark]

Some older RCD's are tripped by spikes if it were my job going on for 9 months I would swap the RCD even if no fault found on original. Although it may not strictly comply with the type testing of a consumer unit if I could physically fit a better quality RCD like the X-Pole I would.
I would assume after 9 months all normal tests will have been done.

 

[Jameswren]

After much sodding about, it seems to be pulp related.

When there a full load (particularly lots of moisture holding materials) it's more likely to fail. If I remove some clothing and run a "drain" cycle it generally runs fine on spin.

I had to move the waste and found the pipe was clogged with gunk. I've now re-routed and it's much better.