Existing cooker control unit

[oo7]

Hi guys

I just need to reassure myself that it is not our responsibility to relocate existing an cooker control unit to the prescribed safe distance when altering the position of the cooker connection unit? Obviously the customer should be made aware that it's not in the current prescribed area (and encouraged to pay to alter this) and a note should be entered on the minor works certificate. Currently it's above the double range cooker but the customer is installing a single cooker and the cooker control unit will then be just to the side, so it will be safer than the current situation.

On the same note the current cable to the cooker connection unit is run in mini trunking that drops directly behind the hob and oven from the above cooker control unit. This IS bad practice I'm assuming, although I can't find anything in the regs to suggest it's not allowed? If there is something in the regs that I'm not seeing could you please point it out to me because the customer wants the trunking run to the corner above the cooker and the dropped behind the cooker (just for aesthetics)

Many thanks,
Chris.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

What makes the outlet outside the prescribed safe zone?
It is unwise to have an isolator above a hob and potentially dangerous!

With regards to cable within trunking behind the cooker, there is always external influences and if heat can cause a potential danger to both trunking and cable I would recommend against it.

 

[ericmark]

You make some good points but first point is to carefully read the regulations and decide what regulation will be breached.

If I take my mothers kitchen as an example the isolator is behind the hob but the sub-CU is also in the kitchen so on the way to nearest exit one passes the RBCO and Isolator on the sub-CU so there is no danger.

The BS7671 does not state isolators shall no be placed behind a cooker.

In the old pre-BS7671 there was no guide to xx edition it was all in the regulations and it stated things like distance between socket and sink missing out things like if mounted under the sink to power waste disposal unit it was OK. So the new BS7671 talks in more general terms.

So return to basics what rule do you think is being broken and why?

 

[EFLImpudence]

530.1 ?

537.4.1.4 ?

 

[securespark]

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=146946&start=0

 

[pompeygit]

Noticeable on my copy of the Electricians guide to the Building Regs it states:
"no sockets or accessories above gas or electric hobs" and on the pretty drawing it shows a cooker switch 300mm from the hob edge.
It does not however state which building reg is applicable.

I guess this maybe just a recommendation and no more

 

[ericmark]

Thank you to link to old post since an isolator is provided on the consumer unit and there is no longer a 2 meter rules there would not it seems be anything in BS7671:2008 requiring a cooker isolator. Same it seems would apply to a gas cooker never seen an isolation point on them other than main gas tap on supply to house or where not accessible without moving cooker.

Some times we need to go back to basics. A solid fuel cooker can only be switched off by dropping the fire box bars and raking out hot coals and carrying them outside. This is not a fast or danger free process. Gas cookers again only have the main isolating tap which prevents extra fuel from entering premises so why should electric be any different?

Since gas and solid fuel have no emergency point to switch off cooker can't see any fire regulations requiring it. Because 14th and 15th edition required it we jump to the conclusion it is still required this of course does mean a house wired to previous regulations may still require one. But the rules on RCD's have removed some of the other safety rules.

132.9 Emergency control. Where in case of danger there is the necessity for immediate interruption of supply, an interrupting device shall be installed in such a way that it can be easily recognised and effectively and rapidly operated.

Question is with a risk assessment is there a need?

 

[pompeygit]

Noticeable on my copy of the Electricians guide to the Building Regs it states:
"no sockets or accessories above gas or electric hobs" and on the pretty drawing it shows a cooker switch 300mm from the hob edge.
It does not however state which building reg is applicable.

I guess this maybe just a recommendation and no more.

 

[oo7]

Noticeable on my copy of the Electricians guide to the Building Regs it states:
"no sockets or accessories above gas or electric hobs" and on the pretty drawing it shows a cooker switch 300mm from the hob edge.
It does not however state which building reg is applicable.

I guess this maybe just a recommendation and no more.

After looking at the building regs again this morning you absolutely right in saying that the don't "say" a minimum distance but just imply one (unlike sockets).

Many thanks again to each and every one of you, I always leave this forum with more knowledge that I started with.

Chris.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I guess this maybe just a recommendation and no more.

It is guidance rather than a requirement, but very sensible guidance I must say!

 

[mfarrow]

The 2m rule/recommendation is mentioned somewhere in the RGBR or OSG but it's not in the same place as the 300mm rule, sadly.

Personally if there was an incident that required immediate removal of power from the cooker, I'd probably be using the cooker controls conveniently located at the front of the cooker, and that I am familiar with, rather than reminding myself where the isolator was and leaning over a worktop to switch it. It's not exactly an emergency switch either. Most of them are little, but heavy things which apart from being red are not any different to a normal light switch, but are harder to operate than the cooker controls.

It would be useful if we had a reference for risk assessment of appliances in homes. Why don't we have big red isolators for storage heaters, especially if someone decides to dry clothes on them? What about luminaires installed below loft tanks, which could burst? Tumble dryer fires? The list is endless!

I know in the days of chip pans, fires on cookers was probably a common occurance, but the world has moved on, and the guidance needs to be reviewed and if necessary changed to reflect that.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Personally if there was an incident that required immediate removal of power from the cooker, I'd probably be using the cooker controls conveniently located at the front of the cooker,

that would not isolate your cooker though, what if the cooker casing became live, what use would the cooking controls be?

 

[mfarrow]

what if the cooker casing became live, what use would the cooking controls be?

About as much use as the fault protection for the cooker, by the sounds of it. How am I to be aware that the cooker is, or might be live? I certainly don't think about it each time a pan boils over.

 

[AndyPRK]

Basic cookers have controls at the top which would be difficult to reach with flames and heat from pans.

Therefore a switch to the side can be used like an emergency stop button would be.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

How am I to be aware that the cooker is, or might be live?

When you or guest in your property gets a belt from it! How do you think?
The cooker controls ain't going to stop that and don't bank on the protective device doing so either!