Extending Kitchen Ring Help

[carlasaurus80]

Hi,

I am long time user of this forum, first time poster!

I am currently looking at moving a kitchen into a new area of the house with it's own ring main. Currently we have a cooker point using 6mm cable back to the CU that I am going to get disconnected in it's old location. Physical layout of new kitchen means we do not have the counter space for a double oven and we hate stand alone ovens and electric hobs also.

As such I am just planning to extend the ring main in the new area (has it's own ring main) to install 3 additional double sockets and 2 FCUs for an oven hood and a single oven rated for 13 amp, then install a gas hob. It currently has 2 double sockets and 2 isolated single sockets for a fridge freezer and a dishwasher (currently utility area).

I am unsure under part p whether this is notifiable but as its a kitchen my guess is it is, however I am comms engineer with resoanble competency levels when terminating and installing cables so am happy to unertake this work myself and notify BC, as long as what I am poropsing is ok? I have basic understnding of electrics but don't want to be cocky and install something dodgy so looking for a bit of guidance if possible please. I am quite happy to employ an electrician if needs must but want be sure that I am proposing something do'able.

Basically I plan breaking in to the exiting ring main using 2 x 32amp junction boxes that I will fix to a wall at high level in the new garage utlity room, access will be available to them easily in the future. I then plan to run 3 double sockets of this and spur off one socket to a 13a FCU to a flex outlet behind the oven and then spur off one of the other sockets to a 3a FCU then via 1.25mm cable to a flex outlet behind the oven hood. All FCUs will be switched and above the counter top and no more than a meter away from the appliance. The final double socket I will then link back to one of the junction boxes completing the ring.

In prinicple is what I'm proposing ok? My oven is a standard single oven and is rated by the manafacturer to run off 13amp connection. If it comes with a 13 amp plug, then would I be ok to install a 20A DP switch and then an unswitched socket behind the cooker and just plug it in, rather than using a 13A FCU?

The washing machine is in the utility on a seperate circuit, so the only other appliances will be a fridge freezer, dishwasher and kettle, microwave, hopefully it can cope.

Time, money, location from CU and imminent arrival of new born baby does not allow for the running of a radial direct from CU unfortunately.

Your help/advice/criticism would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[ColJack]

Use existing sockets as joint points, remove a leg of the ringmain and wire the new sockets between

Incorporate the switches for the FCU's into the ring, don't spur off the sockets. This should be easy enough as they are presumably on the same level as and next to the new sockets..

I personally wouldn't remove the existing cooker feed, and would re-use it for the oven and gas hob..

I do hope that you either meant 1.5mm cable, or 1x2.5mm cable rather than 1.25mm cable..

Being a comms engineer means you can wire in a telephone, it does not automatically give you the knowledge or ability to do electrical installation work, so read up on the rules etc before you start hacking walls to pieces..
As far as I know, you can't get sockets with IDC connections yet?

And yes all of this is notifiable..

 

[carlasaurus80]

Thanks for the reply!

Fair point regarding the comms engineer quote, wasn't trying to make a direct comparison, just trying to get accross that reasonably competent with cable termination, chasing cable, installing back boxes and know the importance of good terminations etc! Although, I don't just install phones you know

I'm literally at the design stage and not starting any work until I'm 100% confident it's fine, just drawn up a circuit diagram of what I'm proposing to do so thought I'd run it by here first, will then look at the physical routes etc, this won't be a bodge if I do it and I am doing as much research as I can.

I will try to extend the ring using the socket rather than junction boxes and will also ensure that I incoporate the FCUs in to the ring main.

Other than it all seems reasonable.

The reason I can't get the 6mm cooker connection is no sparkies in my area are available at short'ish notice it seems (or good ones) and I have to get the kitchen useable in time for our new baby in 3 weeks (or anytime soon!!) And I am no way re-running that from the CU myself as it's definitely beyond my skill level. So needs must, we have single oven and for now that's what options I have unfortunately. Maybe in the future, when we refurbish the kitchen units etc, it's just a physical move of exisitng stuff at the moment to get us up and running.

ps. typo on my part with the "1.25mm cable"

 

[Taylortwocities]

Bear in mind that all new work must comply with the new Wiring Regulations.

For most domestic environments this means that all circuits (that's lighting too!) must be RCD protected.
I'll bet that your consumer unit does not provide that facility and the fisrt thing you'll need is to do a consumer unit upgrade so it meets the new regs.

You will also need the correct test equipment to pass muster with the local authority. Do you have this? A multimemter and an oscilloscope won't do it. I'll suggest you get a registered electrician to help/advise and certify.

 

[carlasaurus80]

I think I'm gonna have to bite the bullet, my consumer unit is some ancient looking thing that I've been worrying about since we moved in and I'm relcutant to lose the 6mm cooker wire.

After some time to think about it, a quick chat with she who holds the purse strings..............

I'm gonna get a local spark in, get the consumer unit updated, tested and get a new cooker feed run in at the same time. It may be much more expensive but at least it will be a proper job, safe and future proof!

Thanks for all the advice.

There goes the budget for flat screen TV I was gonna buy!

 

[ColJack]

TTC only the circuits being worked on are required to be brought up to the current regs.. and then only if making aditions or alterations to the circuit.
so that would be 1 kitchen circuit and one removed.

since he was going the notification route, then he doesn't need any test equipment, the LABC appointed tester would have all the gear..

 

[Taylortwocities]

True. Bet he'll redo the lights in the kitchen while he is at it though...

 

[carlasaurus80]

Local spark we got in reckons the new cable run would be a nightmare especially as we've recently laid new wood flooring upstairs.

His suggestion is to extend the 6mm cable using a 45A cooker connector installed on the wall in the current location then to run the extra cable from this point to the cooker switch in the new location.

The junction point would be fully accessable and labelled.

Is he a cowboy or is this a reasonable option, he seemed an ok guy and someone else reccomended him to us.

I'd been keen to here your thoughts on his solution.

 

[ColJack]

laminate flooring is the bane of many an electricians existence..

"I want a dozen new sockets, but you can't take up my new flooring"

is there no way to pull it up and re-lay it afterwards? ( clik laminate? )

without seeing the job it's impossible to tell if what he's proposing is acceptible or going to look half decent.

how far is the new cooker going to be from the existing? if it's within 2M of the switch then you don't need to move the switch..

post us a photo of where it's going and possibly a drawing of the layout and we can get a better idea of the job..

one option is to take the long way round, or if the joists run the right way then you can fish it through the floorspace..

I can think of one way of doing it with a 110mm holesaw and several holes, but I'd get shouted at if I sugested it to you..

 

[carlasaurus80]

View media item 11938
This is where the current connection is (next to lovely spice rack!), we will be changing the use of this room in the redcoration. Spark was proposing to chase the cable up to high level and put a flush blanking plate style connection, roughly where the chimmney hood is currently, the cable runs that way, but the joists run towards us as you look at it. A door way will be going in where the cable is currently.

View media item 11939
The cable will cross the room in the ceiling void above the window, which will be accessed from below probably by removing some parts of the ceiling board. Where you can see the pipes on the right going through the wall, above that area in the ceiling space is where the current electrics for the side extension run, which is where the cable will go.

View media item 11940
The wall with the doors is going to be knocked down to create room for units, cooker will be roughly where excercise bike is in the pic.

View media item 11942
The garage backs on to this wall

View media item 11941
The last pic shows the kitchen location as it is now. cable run is roughly 8 metres tops.

 

[ColJack]

any chance of a quick sketch to show us roughly the current layout and the new layout?
include cable runs as I can't quite follow your descriptions in my head..

 

[carlasaurus80]

Ok, I've used the diagram function on this site so forgive the child like drawing!

View media item 11980
The cooker cable will be joined as near to it's current location as possible. The wall running from the cooker point area to the utility is an external wall with loads of pipes in, I will be fixing 2 by 4s to this wall and boarding it to hide all that, so the junction box will be installed here with an access panel so it can be worked on in the future if need be.

The cable will then be run in the ceiling accross the current kitchen then via an exisitng access point in the ceiling void into the utility. Then the cable will go accross the utility in to the garage, down the wall and into the final termination point.

The cable will be run by cutting out sections of the ceilings to avoid taking the flooring up, upstairs. Then I will revisit it when the spark has finished and patch it up as part of the redecoration of this whole area.

Below is the new layout

View media item 11981
Hope that is clearer now?
I'm assuming you can magnify these pictures!

 

[ColJack]

where is the CU mounted?
if the "cable run" shown is from the CU which is in the garage / soon to be utility, then you can take it out and run it straight from the utility..

if you like I could pop over and give you a consult, no charge...