Extending over converted garage - please help!!

[Lwilkinson1]

Hi all

Last year we completed a single story kitchen extension and converted part of the garage into a utility room. I have included a picture below from a house that sold in the area recently which is similar to our conversion (main difference is our back door is where the WC is).

At the time, we told the builder that we were planning to extend above the garage at some point, putting in a bedroom and bathroom. We were concerned that the converted piece of the garage would essentially be destroyed because of needing to underpin etc.

He said that the garage is very unlikely to have the same founds as the house (fair enough - 1950s semi, single skin bricks), but that it would be fine as you can use steel to support the new floor on top and no disruption to the conversion (minus not having a ceiling for a while obviously).

We had somebody round yesterday to do some drawings and he said that a steel post of around 1 foot in width would be required in the back left hand corner (where the WC is in the pic - i.e. where our back door is). Which means that we essentially lose our back door (or the window and/or utility units) because we can’t fit both in.

Is there any way around this at all? Next door’s garage is attached to ours so we can’t place the steel further to the left outside the garage.

Thanks

 

[noseall]

Hi all

Last year we completed a single story kitchen extension and converted part of the garage into a utility room. I have included a picture below from a house that sold in the area recently which is similar to our conversion (main difference is our back door is where the WC is).

View attachment 339732

At the time, we told the builder that we were planning to extend above the garage at some point, putting in a bedroom and bathroom. We were concerned that the converted piece of the garage would essentially be destroyed because of needing to underpin etc.

He said that the garage is very unlikely to have the same founds as the house (fair enough - 1950s semi, single skin bricks), but that it would be fine as you can use steel to support the new floor on top and no disruption to the conversion (minus not having a ceiling for a while obviously).

We had somebody round yesterday to do some drawings and he said that a steel post of around 1 foot in width would be required in the back left hand corner (where the WC is in the pic - i.e. where our back door is). Which means that we essentially lose our back door (or the window and/or utility units) because we can’t fit both in.

Is there any way around this at all? Next door’s garage is attached to ours so we can’t place the steel further to the left outside the garage.

Thanks

Not sure I get you.

Were you hoping to build above without any disruption at all (below)?

We'd probably opt for an internal foundation with a structural inner skin. I can't see many proposals within that existing footprint, that doesn't cause major internal disruption. You need to start thinking of that whole area as a building site.

 

[Lwilkinson1]

No I understand there'll be disruption - but is it going to be a case of ripping up the entire converted space and starting again?

My main concern is that what we have along the back wall of the converted space will no longer fit due to needing a steel post in the back corner.

So we have a back door, then a window with sink unit underneath, then a large floor to ceiling unit housing the washing machine and tumble dryer. Basically all in a row with not much space in between.

The chap doing the drawings basically said where our back door is (where the WC is in the pic I attached) we would need a large steel post in the corner so the door would need to move along to the right to accommodate that. If we move the door along then the units and window no longer fit and we either lose a sink or a space to keep the washing machine and tumble dryer - essentially the whole purpose of a utility room.

I'm very surprised the builder doing the conversion didn't think of this especially as he said he would use steel to support the extension above, although I'm wondering now whether he thought 'not my problem anyway'.

 

[aveatry]

Si is your current build exactly as the drawing with a door into the garage and space along the garage wall side.
If so move the kitchen to utility door to the middle then put your floor to ceiling stuff on the garage wall after blocking in the utility to garage door.
Also do you already have a downstairs loo - if not I would prioritise that over a second sink.

 

[noseall]

I'm very surprised the builder doing the conversion didn't think of this especially as he said he would use steel to support the extension above, although I'm wondering now whether he thought 'not my problem anyway'.

Are you saying the builder should have recognised the design issues and S.E. issues?

I'm very surprised you let a builder loose on your house prior to getting all designed. I'm pretty sure he won't have done 10 years studying Architecture and structural engineering.

Lol.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

If you knew you were going to be building atop the utility room at the time why did you not get any structural works done then (or at least allow for them/get them designed) at the time? Builders often don't know a lot about structure, some do but not many. Anyway a column 12" won't be necessary, that's complete overkill but I daresay something will be required. Is your designer a structural engineer or will he be handing that bit over to an SE in reality?

 

[Lwilkinson1]

Si is your current build exactly as the drawing with a door into the garage and space along the garage wall side.
If so move the kitchen to utility door to the middle then put your floor to ceiling stuff on the garage wall after blocking in the utility to garage door.
Also do you already have a downstairs loo - if not I would prioritise that over a second sink.

Hi, no sorry - the door into the garage is the same but then we have a door to the left where the downstairs WC (on the garage wall). We don't want a second sink we just don't want to lose the one we have

If you knew you were going to be building atop the utility room at the time why did you not get any structural works done then (or at least allow for them/get them designed) at the time? Builders often don't know a lot about structure, some do but not many. Anyway a column 12" won't be necessary, that's complete overkill but I daresay something will be required. Is your designer a structural engineer or will he be handing that bit over to an SE in reality?

Hi, thanks for your input - yes he will be handing over to a structural engineer. At the time we had an architect complete the drawings for the rear extension and garage conversion we weren't 100% sure we would build atop the utility room. By the time we actually managed to get a builder to do the work and work commenced (about 16 months after the drawings) we thought we might decide to have another child in the future so might need another bedroom. That's why we asked the builder whether he could foresee an issue. Completely appreciate that he isn't a SE but he does have 45 years of experience as a builder working on similar houses in the area so is very likely to have come across something similar at least. As he seemed so confident that he could just insert steel above to support the additional load we just stupidly took his word for it without thinking about where the steel would actually sit on top on the garage wall that adjoins to our neighbours which isn't load bearing.

Fast forward another year and we are having a baby so need another bedroom, and am accepting that there will be disruption and probably some damage but really trying to understand whether there is a way to minimize that damage as much as possible, and would really like to retain the small utility space that we have, and all its functions (obviously not while the work is actually going on).

After doing some googling I'm wondering whether the designer actually meant a brick pier would be built to sit the steel atop rather than inserting a steel post. I guess that would make more sense. The rear of our garage is actually slightly set inwards from the footprint of the main house (so slightly different to the pic) so is it beyond the realms of possibility to think we could set the brick pier slightly further back from the existing garage wall, insert the steel on top and then essentially just brick downwards to fill in the void to the existing wall, moving the door to the opposite side where I guess there'd be no pier needed as the steel would sit atop the existing main house wall?

 

[martygturner]

You can use pits and steels to carry an upstairs over garage conversion.... Get an SE to design it...its not difficult or that expensive compared to the disruption. Top tip use Insulated structural panels, massive lowers the load and cost.

 

[aveatry]

Hi, no sorry - the door into the garage is the same but then we have a door to the left where the downstairs WC (on the garage wall). We don't want a second sink we just don't want to lose the one we have

By second sink I meant the second one being the one in the utility as the first is in the kitchen.
So I say do away with the door to the garage and gain some space.