FAILED MORTICE JOINT

[leerichards3500]

Hello

Im clutching at straws here, but i wondered if there was anybody that could shed a little light on a nasty liittle situation i find myself in concerning a newly hung door?

The door in question was purchased from the larger of the DIY stores and although did not cost the earth, it was a external hardwood door, half glazed, for my garage side entrance, so i did not want anything to expensive, so it seemed to fit the bill.

It was hung by a proffesional carpenter, although the door was 1" to wide and 2" to short, so he took an inch from the hinge side of the door and added 2" at the bottom(Same type of wood). the whole door was then coated 3 times, and hung.

The carpenter fitted a 5 lever mortice lock (67mm) and that was that.

Shortly after, problems started to develop when we had the very wet weather in Oct & Nov 09, the door started to swell as expected, although in Dec when winter really kicked in one joint (bottom left corner of glazed panel)started to fail, the gap is about 1" forcing the door outwards as the water froze, thawed and re froze. You can now cleraly see the lock from the outside.

It has now got to the stage where the door will not fit in the frame and is completely insecure. I approached said DIY store who were utterly useless. i filled out a complaints form which was faxed off to the manufacturer. The manufacturer has stated quite clearly that the carpenter is at fault as he has fitted the mortice lock in the incorrect position, weakening the joint. He further stated that the holes drilled into the wood for the handle operation have further weakened the door. The lock and handle were fitted on the H part of the frame, where apparently this is the weaker part of the door???

I am confused? Where else are you supposed to site the handle and mortice lock?? The manufacturer stated that it should have been sited on the upper section (Glazed portion) of the door? But if he did that, how could the carpenter fit a mortice lock?

Can anyone clear this up please? I will post some photos when im at home. but clearly im piggy in the middle here.

Is their a professional body i can go to if either a) the manufacturer is talking rubbish or b) the carpenter will not admit liability?

Thanks for any help and guidance.

Here is the link to my album to view 2 photos

//www.diynot.com/network/leerichards3500/albums/

Cheers

B&Q!!!!!!!!!!

 

[big-all]

cutting 1" off doors not good practice
cutting lock in the mid rail not good practice

do you mean 12mmx2!!!!

if your door was properly painted it would not swell did you remove the door to paint it!!


whos idea was it to remove 1" from each side!![if that was the case]

if the 12mm is more than recomended then you need to pass this onto your carpenter!!!

 

[leerichards3500]

Hello

The 1" was taken from the opposite side of the door to where the handle/lock was fitted.

Please see photos.

It was the carpenters idea, as we needed to take 1" of the door for it to fit!

Thanks

 

[big-all]

i am afraid its not the door companys fault
your carpenter has removed 75 to 100% off the tennons

now lets assume he is a fully qualifyed carpenter who has had a senior moment [we all have them] this is a basic stupid mistake

even if its doweled and glued on the profile you need at least an inch between lock an join for the dowels to have a chance you have NO material as you can see the lock

 

[Burnerman]

Yep sadly its the chippy who's goosed that one....what a crazy place to cut out a lock
Even with the lock relocated the door has lost all of its strength in that area.
John

 

[crank39]

I read the original post and thought i bet the mortice lock has been fitted in the midrail, then i saw the photo which confirmed it. Your joiner wants sacking, never fit a mortice lock in the midrail as you end up removing all of the tenon and its only a matter of time until this happens.

I was taught this on my very first week in joinery 20 odd years ago, i suspect your joiner isn't really a joiner sadly

 

[crank39]

Lee, here is a picture of a mortice and tenon joint, hopefully it'll give you an insight into why fitting a lock in that area it weakens it

Click on the exploded door......

http://www.madawaska-doors.com/craftsmanship.php

Here you can see the joint in the midrail and how much of that joint has been chopped out and lost to fit the lock. The lock should have been fitted higher up the stile, industry standard is the spindle of the handle to be 1 metre from the ground so would of been above the midrail, also fitting a 2 and a half inch deep lock wouldn't of gone right through to the glazed area.......UNLESS you have cut too much off the width of the door.

It is your joiners fault, not the door manufacturers.

Sorry

 

[joinerjohn]

Yep, Agree with the other posters on this one. Mortice locks are usually fitted above the middle rail. They are not quite as deep as the stile so do fit. I'm surprised at your joiner taking 1" off the hinge side as well ! Manufacturers usually state no more than 12mm off any door measurement, split between both sides (6mm per side)
IMHO you would have been better having a new frame and door put in rather than just the door. Old frames have caused me my fair share of problems in the past.
Go back to your joiner and tell him , it's his fault the joint has failed. He'll probably deny this but believe me , it is his fault.

 

[Deluks]

Agree with previous, although the question should be asked?
Why on earth buy a door without first measuring the opening!