Farage this morning

[Micilin]

Anyone hear his interview on R4 this morning?

Very poor on failing to answer a direct question, and said we don't need to worry about 'the detail ' of his proposed immigration policy.

Mind you, it might wake him up enough so he does some homework in order to give the others a bit more to think about in the debate.

 

[Doug99]

BBC news showed a short clip of him being asked whether he considers plumbers/plasterers/electricians to be skilled workers.

Its all down to what is considered as 'skilled'.

I can competently exchange my house radiators as a DIY project, but does that make me skilled?

I can mix a bucket of plaster and spread it on a wall. Does that make me a plasterer?

I can rewire a plug and often fix my own domestic appliances, but can't be considered an electrician as I am not certified.

Tricky one to debate 'off the cuff'.

 

[JBR]

As far as I'm concerned, if they were qualified as plumbers/plasterers/electricians to British standards, they should be allowed in - if we were in need of such qualified people, of course.

 

[Belboz]

BBC news showed a short clip of him being asked whether he considers plumbers/plasterers/electricians to be skilled workers.

Its all down to what is considered as 'skilled'.

I can competently exchange my house radiators as a DIY project, but does that make me skilled?

I can mix a bucket of plaster and spread it on a wall. Does that make me a plasterer?

I can rewire a plug and often fix my own domestic appliances, but can't be considered an electrician as I am not certified.

Tricky one to debate 'off the cuff'.

IMHO They are all skilled trades EXCEPT plastering. Plasterers are artisans.

You can learn to many skills but when it comes down to plastering then that is an art and not a skill (I am NOT a plasterer BTW)

 

[jockscott]

Anyone who is worried about immigration into this island nation, and happens to say they are concerned, is immediately labelled a racist, by the other parties, the media and the do gooders of society (like JD and his ilk) Doesn't matter whether we only allow "qualified" people in to the country or not.

Didn't watch the big debate tonight (so others will have to fill me in on what happened) but did anyone bother to ask all/any of these party leaders, their stance on Europe? (specifically the EU and our part in it?)

 

[JBR]

Anyone who is worried about immigration into this island nation, and happens to say they are concerned, is immediately labelled a racist, by the other parties, the media and the do gooders of society (like JD and his ilk) Doesn't matter whether we only allow "qualified" people in to the country or not.

Didn't watch the big debate tonight (so others will have to fill me in on what happened) but did anyone bother to ask all/any of these party leaders, their stance on Europe? (specifically the EU and our part in it?)

I did, and it was quite predictable.

Cameron promised a referendum in 2017, but only after he has 'negotiated changes to our membership of the EU'.
Miliband admitted that he wants to remain in the EU.
Farage was the only one who promised an unconditional referendum.
(The LimpDems, SNP, Plaid and the Greenies are unimportant.)

As I have read elsewhere, the woman who was supposedly 'moderating' the discussion was a lightweight and was largely ignored by the participants. Paxman would have done a much better job!

 

[RNReindeer]

Farage was the only one who promised an unconditional referendum.

So is Farage not anti-EU anymore, just anti-EU if the referendum result agrees with his policy?

Or suppose UKIP held a majority, does your comment indicate that Farage would be anti-EU, even if the referendum result was against his policy?
Where would that leave UKIP/Farage?

It seems to me that he's trying to appease the electorate. Or maybe he's just confused and promising a referendum 'cos that's what others are doing and he doesn't understand (or hasn't thought through) the juxtaposition of his policy with the result of a referendum.

 

[Micilin]

I didn't see the TV show but on the radio interview

1. Farage was not labelled a racist for his views on immigration, so let's not use that as a smokescreen .He failed to answer direct questions, for example on his assertion that immigration stopped children playing in the streets, he was hopelessly evasive.

2. He clearly said that there was no need to discuss the detail of his points/quota system modelled on Australia.This lack of detail is telling on a lot of parties who are populist with no real chance of having to implement anything.

As for UKIPs influence, what about the Unionist partiies in NI for example?They have more seats at the moment!

 

[JBR]

I thought you said (on another thread) that you weren't going to hang around any longer, DC.

 

[footprints]

I remember being told back in the 60's / 70's that as a Gasfitter I was only semi-skilled, why? Because my tools were provided!

I think as always the soundbite is chosen to put a particular view.

Farage did say those trades were skilled, but he also makes the point in other interviews that we should only allow in skills that we need.
If we have Bricklayers unemployed in the UK because they cannot earn enough to support what we in the UK consider a reasonable standard of living., we should not recruit workers from Eastern Europe who will work for less to support their families in a country where that wage goes a very long way.

 

[RNReindeer]

I thought you said (on another thread) that you weren't going to hang around any longer, DC.

I'm pleased to see that you are reading my posts after all.

However as a (supposed) ex-teacher and a (supposed) husband of a university teacher you don't read so well.

What I actually said was:

He might take some consolation that after a couple of months of not reading GD, it is now so much more ridiculous than I'd realised, and I probably won't bother with it anymore. So HandyDope can continue to exploit it as his personal islamophobic internet outlet without my opposition.

So perhaps if you could read what is written rather than what you hope is written we'll be able to understand each other better.

You are, if I may say so, adding to the nonsense contained in GD.
I could easily tolerate your nonsense, however misguided I might consider it, but I find it increasingly difficult to tolerate others.

However, if you really want me to stick around, just continue with your false allegations and I'll be back to refute them.

 

[mark vincent]

Sooner or later someone is going to bite the bullet and take control of immigration , for a start it should be illegal to call someone racist without providing proof that they are actually racist.

 

[RNReindeer]

Sooner or later someone is going to bite the bullet and take control of immigration , for a start it should be illegal to call someone racist without providing proof that they are actually racist.

You could use the libel or slander laws if you felt that you'd been falsely described. So there is legislation already in place. That of course only applies where the perpetrator and the target are identifiable, I believe. I'm not sure if the 2013 Act changes that. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26/contents/enacted
It did, I think place more responsibility on the forum providers.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26/crossheading/defences/enacted para 5

However control of immigration and libel/slander are not relevant topics, IMO.

If someone uses the description, or quotes the use of the description, of racism as a smokescreen to cloud another issue that's an inadequacy in discussion techniques, surely.

 

[Micilin]

Sooner or later someone is going to bite the bullet and take control of immigration , for a start it should be illegal to call someone racist without providing proof that they are actually racist.

You could use the libel or slander laws if you felt that you'd been falsely described. So there is legislation already in place. That of course only applies where the perpetrator and the target are identifiable, I believe. I'm not sure if the 2013 Act changes that. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/26/contents/enacted
It did, I think place more responsibility on the forum providers.

However control of immigration and libel/slander are not relevant topics, IMO.

If someone uses the description, or quotes the use of the description, of racism as a smokescreen to cloud another issue that's an inadequacy in discussion techniques, surely.

As I mentioned, Farage discussed immigration without any accusation of racism. It's just that he was unable to provide detail and avoided direct questions.

It is a lazy smokescreen that people use, when they say 'you can't discuss immigration without being called a racist' . The printed media, TV and Radio constantly debate the subject. It's an easy cop out from some in order to avoid having to deal with the nitty gritty detail of how to manage policy.

Farage has flipped from quota, no quota, to an inward quota of less than 50k pa. He wants an Aussie system , but one that is not the same as the Aussie system.

The bit about immigration stopping children playing out in the streets was just ludicrous ....made worse by his clumsy avoidance of the questions on it.

 

[longdogs]

I thought you said (on another thread) that you weren't going to hang around any longer, DC.

I imagine he tried mixing with the general public for a while but no one listened to him so he thought he would return to GD and grace us with his 'superior' presence.