Fibre to the property

[Rekusu]

What ho one and all,

The area of Surrey where I live has now gotten sufficient Gigabit government vouchers to have the full fibre installation, probably later this year.

At the moment, I have not signed up, but am giving it serious thought. However, I have a number of questions that not surprisingly, the answers cannot be found on the internet, nor can anyone else answer.

The fibre would be coming overhead, presumably to the loft, where the current BT line comes. I did not install CAT5 when I built and only have the regular phone cable throughout the house. X years ago, BT 'moved' the master socket from the loft to the g/f office by reconfiguring the existing cables, but did not actually install anything new. At the moment, both our desktop computers are wired into the router which is plugged into the master socket.

I would like the computers to be plugged directly into the new fibre router, but as I understand it, this means the ONT would have to be on the wall of the office. Is this correct?

Or can the ONT be in the loft and the existing telephone cable allow the router to be plugged into whatever socket in the office, where it already is located?

I am told 'they' will install the fibre where I want it. What does this mean? If I want it in the office, will they bring the cable from the loft, down the external wall, around the side of the house and drill a hole through my air-tight timber-frame wall?

I have used my mobile phone to check the wi-fi signal. Next to the router, I get a network speed of 72Mbps but in the loft, only 42. What does this imply if I were to use wi-fi with a fibre connection?

Thanks and toodle pip

Rex

 

[Sureitsoff?]

I dont think bt would go into a loft to fit the ONT there, so yes they would probably drill through the wall. is there nowhere else you could fit the ont? you need power for the ONT as well so is there a place where it would be easy to have the fibre enter and near to a socket. the existing cabling from your loft to where your master socket is will not be suitable (unless it is cat5/6 that you have in place. your wifi speed will be dependent on the package you sign up for ie you will not get 200 Mbps wifi on a 66Mbps package.
my fibre comes into the house from underground, all the way up the outside wall, through the soffit, through the loft,down through internal stud walls into a cupbord in the middle of the house. but i did plan ahead and install conduits and pull strings. bt were happy for me to do this(well the guys who turned up to do the install were happy as all the work had been done for them!)
you could ask this same question on the alarms and phones forum though
https://www.diynot.com/diy/forums/alarms-cctv-telephones/

 

[Rekusu]

Unfortunately, I did not plan but during the build 14 years ago, fibre was not really on my radar. It will almost certainly come overhead as all the existing phone lines to all houses are from a pole. And I do have power in the loft.

But bringing the cable from the loft via stud walls would be a major challenge and I don't think really possible. I also don't really want a cable attached to the exterior walls; the design is 'clean' with white render and any cable will be unsightly.

I am not overly concerned about the Mbps as at the moment, I have standard BT 10 Mbps so anything faster is a plus. I also don't really need fibre; but if on offer to the house, more of less free of charge, it is stupid to refuse.

 

[Lucid]

I would like the computers to be plugged directly into the new fibre router, but as I understand it, this means the ONT would have to be on the wall of the office. Is this correct?

Yep, as @Sureitsoff? said, that's about the size of it. The requirement for power for the ONT is an important consideration, so the office seems like the best choice out of the two.

Or can the ONT be in the loft and the existing telephone cable allow the router to be plugged into whatever socket in the office, where it already is located?

Aside from the power issue for the ONT as already dealt with, phone cable isn't up to handling the data speeds. Think about it; if it were, would there be any need for fibre in the first place?

I am told 'they' will install the fibre where I want it. What does this mean? If I want it in the office, will they bring the cable from the loft, down the external wall, around the side of the house and drill a hole through my air-tight timber-frame wall?

Unless your house is likely to deflate like a punctured bouncy castle, is drilling through the wall and then filling the hole after so it's airtight again going to be a major issue?

I have used my mobile phone to check the wi-fi signal. Next to the router, I get a network speed of 72Mbps but in the loft, only 42. What does this imply if I were to use wi-fi with a fibre connection?

Simply that the further you are from the wireless router then the more noise there is in the signal, and so the more corruption there is, which then means the more times that data has to be resent. The result is the further you get from the wireless router then the slower the data transfer.

Remember though that your wireless network speed isn't the same as your broadband speed.

Wi-Fi is simply an alternative to a piece of Ethernet cable. It's possible then to set up a home network between say a couple of PCs, and a NAS drive, and maybe some tablets and smart phones and have data moving around within that network but have no connection to the outside world. Measuring the Wi-Fi speed within that network would tell you how quick data can be moved. Getting further away from the Wi-Fi router would slow that transfer speed whereas with a bit of Ethernet cable the speed would be virtually the same at 100m as it would be at 1m.

If you then connect that network to the outside world via a broadband connection, then the speed of the network itself doesn't change. However, when you look at how fast data can download from the servers on the Net, then that will be governed first by the speed of those servers, and then by the speed of the broadband service your house receives after contention is factored in, and then finally the speed of the house network.

Where you're saying that your broadband service is currently 10Mbps, then regardless of how quick the Wi-Fi, if you're streaming or downloading from the Net then 10Mbps is your speed ceiling.

But bringing the cable from the loft via stud walls would be a major challenge and I don't think really possible. I also don't really want a cable attached to the exterior walls; the design is 'clean' with white render and any cable will be unsightly.

This sounds like a question of "who pays the bill?"

It's common for service suppliers to install to a basic standard. This would include bringing cable down the outside face of an exterior wall, and then drilling through, then fitting a surface mount box. It would also be reasonable to expect them to run some cable at surface-level along a skirting board or around a door architrave. I wouldn't expect them though to lift floors or break in to walls to conceal cable. That's a much bigger job for a more specialist installation company. The cost for that would be bourn by the home owner separate to any installation costs from the service provider.

 

[Rekusu]

I guess there is a certain amount of 'who pays the bill' but although I would like to take fibre on board, I am reluctant to sign up to the Gigabit scheme without knowing what costs I may incur.

And as I don't fully understand what happens to the fibre cable once it gets to the house,....?

In words that a 5 year old can understand. The fibre will come overhead to the smae position that the current BT line comes. Does the fibre terminate in an external box? If so, another cable goes through the wall to the ONT? And from the ONT to the modem?

If I installed an internal CAT5 (or 6) cable from the loft to the position where the current BT master socket is located (in the f/f office) would that be satisfactory to connect the ONT to a new master socket in the office?

 

[winston1]

What is an ONT?

 

[denso13]

What is an ONT?

https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/w...u are a fibre,network for broadband and voice.

 

[OwainDIYer]

In words that a 5 year old can understand. The fibre will come overhead to the smae position that the current BT line comes. Does the fibre terminate in an external box? If so, another cable goes through the wall to the ONT? And from the ONT to the modem?

ONT = Optical Network Termination. Box that turns optical fibre into unrouted ethernet.

The fibre comes through the wall (there is usually a splice point on the outside) and runs to the ONT inside (which requires power). You can have a reasonable length of fibre between the entry point and the ONT.

From the ONT to your Router you need ethernet. The ONT doesn't talk wifi. Ethernet cable can be up to about 90 metres. From the Router to your PCs can be ethernet or wifi

Would powerline networking between the ONT and the Router be an option?

Or bring the fibre down externally hidden behind a drainpipe?

This document and video shows what developers do in new builds when they install fibre; Openreach will be using the same sort of kit for your installation.
https://www.openreach.com/fibre-bro...opers/how-to-self-install-openreach-equipment

 

[Sureitsoff?]

I guess there is a certain amount of 'who pays the bill' but although I would like to take fibre on board, I am reluctant to sign up to the Gigabit scheme without knowing what costs I may incur.

And as I don't fully understand what happens to the fibre cable once it gets to the house,....?

In words that a 5 year old can understand. The fibre will come overhead to the smae position that the current BT line comes. Does the fibre terminate in an external box? If so, another cable goes through the wall to the ONT? And from the ONT to the modem?

If I installed an internal CAT5 (or 6) cable from the loft to the position where the current BT master socket is located (in the f/f office) would that be satisfactory to connect the ONT to a new master socket in the office?

the fibre cable will probably be overhead if that is how your current phone line arrives. the cable will be run down the wall to a position about two feet of the ground and "terminated" in a small box. from this box another fibre cable will be connected to the first cable by splicing ( it uses heat to melt the two cables together) and this new cable will be run to the point where you want it to enter the house. once in the house the new cable can be run a reasonable distance along skirtings etc to the agrred position for the ONT (think of the ONT as a modem that converts the light in the fibre to an electrical signal) from the ONT you run a single ehernet cable to the router which can be some distance away, the router then is connected to any items in the house that require the connection. so in essence the ONT doesnt have to be any where near the router that the computers plug into

 

[Rekusu]

Many thanks for the links and video. Very useful and now I guess I understand. Not quite as complex as I thought it was.

So I could (attempt to) install an ethernet cable from the loft to the router location in the office space.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

you could run a cable (cat5e or preferably cat 6) from the loft down but unless you get a very cooperative installer i dont think they are allowed into lofts anymore afaik.

perhaps try and find a ground level position that the fibre and therefore the ont could be in

 

[Rekusu]

This is kinda what I am concerned about regarding signing up to the Gigabit scheme. I have no idea what I am agreeing to.

My house is a modern, very clean white rendered design; don't have a donw pipe at the front, only a rain chain. So I would not be happy to have a length of cable running from the roof apex down the front.

When I had a previous internet issue, the BT engineer changed the Master Socket position from the loft to the office and in those days, not so long ago, access to the loft was not a problem. Mine is fully boarded, illuminated and tidy; no chance of putting your foot through the floor.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

you could try asking the same question on here
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre.html

there are several OR engineers on there who could probably answer your question better than I can as they will know whether loft installs are allowed these days. even a couple of pics in the loft might help(might not make any difference either !)