Fire Party Wall in loft

[Effy66]

Evening all,

First time here but may not be the last!

Purchasing an old end terraced property which doesn't have a fire party wall in the loft - quite common I understand. But.. it's something we definitely want to install as as close to us moving in as possible when we know completion date.

1. Could someone please advise what steps need to be taken to install one of these in terms of paperwork - do we need a party wall agreement with the nextdoor neighbour? Do we need to get planning permission etc?

2. Practically, what's the lightest material that can be used as I'd be slightly concerned about a heavy wall on 1900/1920 ceiling joists!

Many thanks in advance.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi,

I have recently had one built for my 1890s mid-terrace

1).
No planning permission is required and building control weren't initially interested. They did eventually sign it off, but that was only because they were here for some other works. An informal, anonymous call to your BC officer should confirm.

A party wall notice is theoretically needed, but this can be written by you for no-cost.

Have a look online:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...e-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet

The guidance and example letters are all there.

Party wall issues can get complicated when the other party dissents. This is when surveyors may need to be called and costs add up.
Have a talk with your neighbours first, explain how this will be a massive benefit to them, and hopefully they will sign the letter and that will be that.
In my case, one neighbour signed straight away. The other didn't, but that's another story!

2).
Hopefully, your party wall will be built on something a little more substantial than the joists!
There should probably be a brick or stone wall between you and your neighbours!
In my case, a stud wall was built, on top of the stone party wall, with some bracing running to the joists either side - this was covered with two layers of pink plasterboard, with staggered joints.

Other things to consider:

Any gaps should be filled with fire foam.
Sound insulation would be good to add.
Access needs to be good, if you haven't got a large loft hatch, this is the time to add one.
If you haven't got loft boards, this may also be the time to add them.

You need to find a builder quickly, or leave the job for a while!
Lofts get hot; this is not a job for you want to do over the summer!

Before:



After:


I hope that helps!

 

[Effy66]

Thanks for your detailed response.

We're just starting off the conveyancing so won't complete on the sale for a while yet.

No idea about the size of loft or boards, but I'll ask the guy who did the damp survey for us.

We were looking to get this built once we exchange and before we move in (within a month) but I think that's being over optimistic and it's going to take much longer than that depending on builders' availability.

We've got a bit of a job on our hands with this property - to be honest, still not 100% sure to go ahead as it's got a list of things to do as long as my arm and we have a very small budget but.. one thing at a time. Concerned that once we start having repairs done, we're going to find more jobs than we anticipated or even came up in the survey.

Thanks again!

 

[thomp1983]

Having read your other post, if your planning on having the roof replaced then get the party wall done at the same time, shouldn't take a brickie more than a day to sort with the roof tiles off for access from a scaffold.

Having said that shouldn't take much longer with the roof on but I'd imagine they'd find it better working conditions with no roof

 

[Effy66]

Having read your other post, if your planning on having the roof replaced then get the party wall done at the same time, shouldn't take a brickie more than a day to sort with the roof tiles off for access from a scaffold.

Having said that shouldn't take much longer with the roof on but I'd imagine they'd find it better working conditions with no roof

Thank you for your response. We were going to wait several months to do the roof - it's not urgent as roof, despite old, is not in bad condition - it's just that it doesn't have any covering aside from the slates.

In all this, I'm going to sound extremely dumb.. so for the party wall, we get a brickie, not a builder (or is 'builder' a catch-all title)? And if there's a roofer doing the roof - presumably the roofer puts up his own scaffolding? In this case, can the brickie 'borrow' the roofer's scaffolding? We also need some repointing done to the external walls, also to the chimney, also one chimney to be closed and a cowl added to another - another job for a brickie? To be done at same time as roofing?? How would all this all work be done logistically? Sorry, I've no clue..

 

[thomp1983]

A brickie is someone who's trade is laying bricks, a builder may have more than one trade that they do themselves or as is quite common now they'll run your job for you and have there own subcontractors for each trade.

For example my mate is a builder, he will price and run whatever job the customer wants, he's a brick layer by trade so he does all the groundworks and bricklaying, he then has a mate who's trade is as a roofer so he pays him to do all his roofs and lead work for him, the same for plastering etc. And the customer just deals with my mate, the subcontractors are all dealt with by the builder.

As for how you get the job done that's upto you, you could easily get a roofer in for all the roof works and just let him know you'll be having a party wall built and can whoever is doing it use the scaffold for access, most trades are happy to help each other out it's just a matter timing.

You can organise all your own trades or employ a builder to look after it all for you, which way is best comes down to all sorts of factors which changes from person to person.

 

[Effy66]

A brickie is someone who's trade is laying bricks, a builder may have more than one trade that they do themselves or as is quite common now they'll run your job for you and have there own subcontractors for each trade.

For example my mate is a builder, he will price and run whatever job the customer wants, he's a brick layer by trade so he does all the groundworks and bricklaying, he then has a mate who's trade is as a roofer so he pays him to do all his roofs and lead work for him, the same for plastering etc. And the customer just deals with my mate, the subcontractors are all dealt with by the builder.

As for how you get the job done that's upto you, you could easily get a roofer in for all the roof works and just let him know you'll be having a party wall built and can whoever is doing it use the scaffold for access, most trades are happy to help each other out it's just a matter timing.

You can organise all your own trades or employ a builder to look after it all for you, which way is best comes down to all sorts of factors which changes from person to person.

Thank you - that's much clearer.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

By the way, there are millions of houses in this country with no felt under the slates. Long as the slates are keeping the rain out (if the timbers are in good nick they're doing their job) no need to do anything to it.